New player getting into Fantasy - Dark Elves

[Warsmith]

So I just started my Dark Elves army. As I'm just getting into fantasy, I'd like some advice before going and spending a whole lot on models I won't need in future.
Black Guards, or Executioners?
Should I put handbows on my Corsairs?
What is the most effective War gears to put on a Master? On second thoughts, what heroes should I use?
Is the Cauldron of Blood worth its points?
And lastly, can I convert up plastic models into Dark Riders? At 25 dollars apiece they really don't appeal to me.

Thanks

[Vaul]

Buying new sets of models from games workshop is a pretty touchy topic around here kev, but if you've got your heart set on it then good for you, I hope your choice works out.  Dark Elves are pretty much #1, they're the kings of the roost, and you'll have a hard time building a bad army with them.  Best question to ask is probably, where are you buying your models from? 

If you're using GW stuff probably best to order from wayland games, given what they've been saying lately, but it will take a while for your stuff to show up.  Otherwise second hand and miniatures from other wargaming ranges (I recommend reaper miniatures) can be great.

[wouster7]

An aside...

With GW's trade restrictions Web stores don't seem to have as much pulling power as before. With everyone willing to advertise webstores on the forums then I assume the general consensus is that we don't want the club to get any sponsorship from local retailers and we are happy to advertise them for free.

Back on topic.

Both Black Guard and Executioners are great for your army. Black guard are stubborn and form a fantastic base for otherwise still a T3 army which is a bit vulnerable to shooting or lots of attacks. Executioners are fantastic to dish out high strength attacks and with killing blow are very intimidating and its the unit you can throw at other tough blocks of infantry and even kill an enemy character out right.

With Corsairs the answer to your question is how you would play you army before deciding to equip them. If you want a harrying force then you would field them at 15+ models and give them twin crossbows the sheer amout of fire power you can unload a round into a horde is mind boggling. The other way most people play with them is to give them one cross bow and shoot then redirect and stand and shoot to get their points worth. With 8th edition the aim is to have big blocks of infantry and corsairs tend to be slightly more expensive in points for this role thats why most DE armies take lots of spearmen. Spearmen are fantastic when coupled with magic that DE are supreme at.

What models do you have at the moment Kevin? Come to club and I'll run you through the book so you have a more of an understanding of how things work. There is no specific one build for DE there is many and it all depends how you like to play the game.

Hope that helps.

[Placator]

Don't know much about dark elves, but in regards to Dark Riders a cheap alternative is to get some High Elf Ellyrion Reavers from Isle of Blood and convert them. There are usually plenty available secondhand. I don't know how difficult a conversion this would be, but GW plastics mix pretty well so you could use bits from other kits.

[nik_]

Listen to the baddice podcast, www.baddice.co .uk  The host Ben Curry plays an awful lot of games with his Dark Elves, and wins most of them! If that's your thing, listen out to the units that he includes in his armies.
Seems like a lvl4 mage, shades, horde corsairs with frenzy banner, cauldron of blood, spearmen with mindrazor cast on them, and black guard are staples of his lists.

I've seen good conversions of Dark Riders using Wood Elf Glade Riders.

[Vaul]

Um that guys throws ten power dice at mind razor on his corsair horde... haha.  But yeah he's good.  It's just that they play with a little bit of a different meta over there.

[Warsmith]

Ive only got a lord on cold ones 5 CoK and 7 Corsairs. Just started, and also started trying to paint them, too

My corsairs ended up looking like moving balls of purple sludge with a brown and green cloak. In my defence, these are the first fantasy models I've painted, and I wasn't a great painter anyway 

I was looking at a list which focused more on fast moving hard hitting unuts, like 2 handed weapon corsairs. But as I'm still starting the game I don't know if that's a good idea. So far, I've tested a 500 game with my brother, and a couple of problems were:
My corsairs couldn't catch up with his archers, and the maximum move for them are 10 marches. So when I charged, the cowardly HEs fled and then I couldn't do anything. The next turn, a massive volley of shots into corsairs.
Is that just me not reading rules properly, or just me playing stupidly? I don't see how I could prevent that from happening if I had CC focussed units.

[Vesten]

haha. his assassin and the rest of his army got shot down before they could touch my archers! ... anyway i don't think we have the rules right... still funny, though

[Vaul]

Don't forget their sea dragon cloaks, which give you a better armour save against shooting.  Also make sure that the unit fleeing away from you isn't shooting back at you in its next turn - a unit can't shoot after it has rallied.  But if it was another unit shooting at you while their friends were busy rallying, that's fine.

At the end of the day, once you get some larger units you'll be ok.  A small unit of corsairs will die easily, but if you have 20 or more, they will have a lot of fighters left by the time they hit the enemy.  Also, you can position them in such a way that they are in charge range of TWO enemy units.  If the first enemy unit flees, you're allowed to take an LD check and if you pass, then charge another unit.  If that second unit flees as well, great - you're getting a lot of them to run.  But if they don't, well you haven't wasted your turn failing a charge against the original unit.  If you have a BSB nearby that LD check will be easier to pass.

Also, you're allowed to measure the range between two units at any time.  Your infantry move 5" at a time and can charge their move speed + 2d6.  That means an average of 13".  Measure first, and if it's 13" or less, then your hope of passing that roll is greater than 50%.  If you think the enemy is going to flee, work out where they are going to be after they run, and see if that is still going to be within 13" or not.  If it is, you'll probably catch them.

[Warsmith]

I just made a list:


Lords (325pts)
1x Supreme Sorceress (I just put her there because alot of people says she's a must get, along with those upgrades, which I found on Dakka)
- Level 4 Wizard
- Pendant of Khaeleth
- Sacrificial Dagger
- Ironcurse Icon
- Lore of Shadow

Heroes
Lokhir Fellhart (250)
Core (826)

20 x Corsairs (250)
-Musician
-Reaver
-Standard Bearer of Frenzy thingy
10 Corsairs (105)
-Musician
10 Corsairs (105)
-Musician
5 Dark Riders (136)
-Musician
-Shields
-Repeater Crossbows
20 Repeater Crossbowmen (230)
-Guardmaster
-Musician
-Shields
15x Warriors (108)
-Musician
-Shields
Assassin (175)
-Repeater Handbow
-Just up to 75 points of Khainite, I was looking at Venom Sword for an Anti-Hero Lord, or Manbane

Special (448)
5 Cold One Knights – Musician (143)
5 Cold One Knights – Musician (143)
12 Executioners (162)
-Draich Master
-Musician

Rare (450)
War Hydra (175)
Reaper Bolt Thingy (100)

A happy 2400 points. I plan to charge the 10 Corsairs, then
Is it true that you need to keep the supreme sorcerer in a squad of shields and sacrifices? If not, I'll chuck away that 15 man warrior squad. Sticking the Assassin into the one of the 10 man corsairs.
C & C welcome

[dave grant]

Looks OK, as was said its difficult to make a 'bad' list with DE.

Dark Elves are ACE!! Playing with them getting ready for ETC and after a couple of games getting used to them, I am on a 12 game unbeaten streak (including 9 in tournaments) - all in UK with ETC-style comp.

If you build it right DE out-fight, out-shoot, and out-magic most lists -> probably the best all rounders out there.

My current list is below (and to be honest, its pretty filthy):

Sorcerer: Lvl 4 (Shadow), Lifetaker, Sacrificial Dagger
Dreadlord: Dark Steed, Heavy Armour, Cloak, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Kaleth, Black Dragon Egg, Soulrender
Cauldren: BSB

34 Spears: Musc
15 Spears: Musc
20 Spears: Std, Musc, Std of magic resistance
14 Crossbows: Shield, Musc
18 Black Guard: Musc
18 Black Guard: Musc
10 Shades: Extra Hand Weapon
10 Shades: Extra Hand Weapon
Hydra

The list (army in general) synergies unbelievably well. Shadow magic is partly what makes this list so good, and its not Mindrazor, but Withering that is the most important spell.

To give an example, this week I had 6 Black guard vs 17 Tomb Guard (both had been reduced from shooting/magic) + a Prince and liche priest.... after Cauldren (+1 A), Withering (-2 toughness) and Miasma (-1 WS) I took off the Prince, and 11 Tomb Guard with the loss of 1 Black Guard (so of course the rest popped).... its just wrong!

Similarily after withering a unit the shooting can easily take out entires units in a turn (bigger units need breath weapon assistance though).


Oh, and yes the Sorceress needs a unit of spears (also known as power dice) to go in...

[dave grant]

Thought I should add... whilst DE are ACE!!, they are a glass hammer. As a new player you may find they don't work/win as some people have discussed.

If you use them 'wrong' they are T3 expensive troops with little armour who will die quickly.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Warsmith]

Thanks to everyone. I'm still getting started with the rules of fantasy, and a much bigger army scale than 40k. I'm a little sad because the highest save for my army's core units are something like a 4+, whereas I'm used to 3+ saves for Necrons and Chaos. And that's the weakest armor saves in those armies too.

I'll look forward to learning the rules at the club:P

[nik_]

Come to CanOpener tomorrow and watch some games, that'll be helpful.

[Warsmith]

That's what I plan on doing. 8 AM to  8 PM freemans bay community centre right?

[Warsmith]

I like the Typhon model from Hordes! I'm thinking of buying one.
Would having 2 Hydras make me an ass? I heard the Hydra was an overpowered model for its price...

[Big D]

2 Hydras would not only make you an ass but would get you a savage beating with the FBRB

[Warsmith]

FBRB?

[wouster7]

@Kevin

2 Hydra's won't be let into most tournaments as they are to op. DE have enough in their army book that is good with out having to use the 2 hydra's option

BRB = big rule book. Big D is as subtle as a brick 

[richardbarby]

do you recon dark elves sit top of the tree under 8th now ?