Tin Soldiers 4, Bring Back Dragoncon!

[Josh]

*****************************************************************

Things are progressing steadily on the Tin Soldiers front so I thought I'd throw some times out on the forum to spread the interest. This thread is going to have the updates and info as we get nearer the date.

Late June was the original date I had in mind, however June is now being fought over by CanOpener and Nicon. So the new date looks like it will be 2-3 July, 2 weeks after CanOpener. If there are any clashes that people are aware of, or public holidays I have not considered please let me know.

Provisional Dates
Draft players pack sent for comment to a select few: 10 April
Players pack issued and registrations open: 17 April
Winge-fest about the players pack and how broken certain armies are 18 April - 1 July
Tournament: 2-3 July

Thanks for the support I've received, I hope to live up to the DragonCon Tin Soldiers reputation.
You can contact me either with a PM, a post in this thread, or an email to tinsoldiers4@yahoo.com

*image is thieved. Thanks Google

[Simon]

I think TS4 should stay in Jun.

but your are the To so you make the call.

I probably can't make it in July.....

[wouster7]

If you make Hills infinite for tlos then 'Betsy' will be the new come back kid

[richardbarby]

If you make Hills infinite for tlos then 'Betsy' will be the new come back kid

dreams are what now ?

did you want to make it 7th ed phil

[Josh]

I think TS4 should stay in Jun.

but your are the To so you make the call.

I probably can't make it in July.....

Well, it's possible that we could do the week after CanOpener if people think that's fine. I just always prefer to have space between my tournaments to theory hammer a new list
Any feedback (esp from Richard) about that?

If you make Hills infinite for tlos then 'Betsy' will be the new come back kid

I'm hesitant to make house rules regarding terrain. It screws with the game mechanics and list designs too much. Just don't be a little girl and dust off Betsy!

[Big D]

I still believe the teired system is the best way to work around hills.

* 1 level hill will hide normal size infantry/cavalry and give hard cover to MI/MCav
* 2 level hill (and higher) will hide MI/MCav and give hard cover to the monsters
* Nothing completely hides the big gribbly.

Makes more sense than "this hill is infinitely high, but I can still charge up it"

Either way. the best way to combat "DragonCon" is to make it my own personal "CannonCon" 

[warpmaster]

I'm hesitant to make house rules regarding terrain. It screws with the game mechanics and list designs too much. Just don't be a little girl and dust off Betsy!

Yep,leave the terrian rules alone,they work fine straight out of the book

[Russ]

Looks like I will be the only one with a Dragon this year then

[Simon]

Well, it's possible that we could do the week after CanOpener if people think that's fine. I just always prefer to have space between my tournaments to theory hammer a new list
Any feedback (esp from Richard) about that?

Canopener is 1600 points and it is all about friendly games, it is not really an official tournament, it is just a 1 day charity event, last year there were only 7 fantasy players I think..

I'm hesitant to make house rules regarding terrain. It screws with the game mechanics and list designs too much. Just don't be a little girl and dust off Betsy!

but then you have to be very clear with the line of sight rule, as there are some players who will abuse this rule and do some very dodgy things.

[richardbarby]

im hoping for a few more than that simon

im hopeing your in warm up for ts4 at canopener

[Glenn Patel]

I think 'True Line of Sight' def. has snags with conversions and older/non-GW models. (the infamous 'kneeling' 40K models are coming to mind...)

Option One:  Put up with shenanigans (baby dragon! THE BANNER OF LOS BLOCKING DOOM! Bats skimming the ground! Extensoneck Dragon! Inflatable dragon so that it gains LOS at the start of the turn when you pump it up!)

Option Two: Ditch or modify TLOS (downside: loses simplicity of 'is there a TLOS path? YES OR NO?')

Option Three: Require models to be of the same approximate dimensions as their most recent GW counterpart. (downside: disallows some models, potentially angering some players)


Personally, I think Option Three is the right one. It's the "official" way to handle things ('no non-GW minis!' etc), and can easily be included in the player's pack. Possibly as part of painting/minimum painting criteria ('all models must be painted, based, and of approximately the same dimensions as the official GW model').

[James.M]

Given the New Zealand tournament scene isn't really that big, do you guys seriously think people will actually try the TLOS stuff you are talking about and think they can actually get away with it?

TLoS is absolutely fine. These mythical abuses just don't happen in real life that I've seen so far, in 40k or fantasy. Besides, isn't that what Sports scores are for?


Also Dragons, and Thirsters etc, are still amazing in 8th.

[Glenn Patel]

Simon doesn't seem to want to name names in an open forum, but yes, there was at least one model we have both seen on the field that is... a bit dodgy.

[nik_]

Now now, Tony was quite happy to treat his Great Unclean one as taller than it was

[Simon]

Option One:  Put up with shenanigans (baby dragon! THE BANNER OF LOS BLOCKING DOOM! Bats skimming the ground! Extensoneck Dragon! Inflatable dragon so that it gains LOS at the start of the turn when you pump it up!)

don't forget the extremely oversize unit filler which can block all LOS to models behind it.

Given the New Zealand tournament scene isn't really that big, do you guys seriously think people will actually try the TLOS stuff you are talking about and think they can actually get away with it?

happened to me, in NZ. yes people do try TLOS stuff like that.

TLoS is absolutely fine. These mythical abuses just don't happen in real life that I've seen so far,

you probably haven't seen a lot, thats why. 

[wouster7]

@Josh

Sorry mate, I never intended my comment to spark off a full tipple terrain rant. I thought line of sight was pretty simple to solve and ppl just used their common sense. All the examples used so far unit fillers, big banners, flat on his face large targets is rather comical, but really maybe your opponent just wanted some conversation because he was lonely
My comment was in jest, since Betsy is so good in 8th she's sure to have a fly buy card and will be shopping during tin soldier so excuse her non attendance. The only rule that matters is 'Hills block line of sight except to large targets' otherwise a 'halfling bending down would still be able to see everything on the table even if a hill is in front of him.

[Josh]

Just to let you guys know with rules like terrain, LOS, measuring, etc, etc it will be clearly stipulated in the players pack how I expect players to conduct themselves. I expect people to play with courtesy, respect, and in the spirit of what is supposed to be a fun event. A certain level of gamesmanship is expected in tournaments (such as ensuring accurate measuring and wheeling, following the correct turn sequence, etc), but attempts to bend the Warhammer rules to one side's favour will or be tolerated in this, or I hope any other WHFB event.
That said, the player's pack will suggest how terrain blocks LoS (hills block all line of sight except to large targets, buildings block LOS all together), but I always encourage players to discuss all terrain on their table PRIOR to rolling for sides. There's nothing stopping two players in agreement playing differently.


More opinions on the timeframe? I'm still leaning towards 2-3 of July as I don't want to step on the toes of those attending CanOpener. I think that two weeks should be enough time for a breather, but am still open to suggestions.

[James.M]

TLoS is absolutely fine. These mythical abuses just don't happen in real life that I've seen so far,

you probably haven't seen a lot, thats why. 

Well, I've played in several 100+ player tournies in the UK since 8th came out (loving it over here by the way ) and I haven't seen anything that I would call dodgy, but if someones trying it in NZ, then thats pretty sad...

Anyway, it's just my 2c that TLoS is fine.

[Simon]

Oh, also 1 more suggestion, if you are going to make a cap for the maximum number of power dice in the magic phase, please specific “any dice generated” but not “power dice generated”. I don’t want to face another 24 dice tomb king magic phase when I am capped at 12.

[Fujin]

If you are going to make a cap for the maximum number of power dice please do NOT specify "any dice generated" but rather "power dice generated". Tomb Kings are out in May using Lores in-line with 8th edition - problem solved.

Meanwhile Night Goblin Magic Mushrooms that can potentially stop the spell from working are invalidated.

[Glenn Patel]

Just a pet peeve: If you're going to cap "extra dice generated" at Winds of Magic + Channeling + 2, that's fine, but for the DE Power of Darkness could you please specify that that's net dice generated? I don't think that's out of line with how every other dice generation effect works, and it annoys me that there's only one race-specific power generation effect that is completely disabled by that cap.

(plus it just feels so flavourful casting PoD... you're risking miscasts and early ends to you magic phase in exchange for MORE POWER!)

[Josh]

Thanks for the input, points are noted and will be considered. No promises though 

[Josh]

The players pack is now out for comment to a select few, and looks good to be released this weekend. Registration will open with the release of the pack, although it is encouraging to see many already keen for what I'm sure will be an awesome event.
Also, Tin Soldiers 4 will have its own blog which will contain tournament preparation info not found here.

http://tinsoldiers4.blogspot.com/

[wouster7]

How do you make a gribbly hunting list with High Elves, anyone?
I'll hire 4 great cannons pls.

[Fujin]

Beast Cowers.

Oh wait...


Now you'll actually have to think about it!

[Ry.S]

pit of shades/mindrazor steam tanks beware!

[Rob Shirley]

First weeeknd of July does not look like it has anything in it.  These are the dates that i had up to a week or so ago.

Apr   Fri    22   Good Friday      
   Fri   22to24   NatCon   Christchurch   Variety incl all FOW eras
May   Sat   7&8   Taranaki Wars   New Plymouth   LW/MW 750pts FoW
   Sat   21&22   BF MW GT   Auckland   FoW MW Doubles
   Sat   28&29   BattleabovetheBrynderwyns   Whangarei   40K
Jun   Sat   4&5   NICon   Hamilton   MWFoW,40K,Fantasy,Warmachine,
               40KSkirmish,Napoleonics, DBMM25
   Sat    4&5   SouthCon   Dunedin   Variety
   Mon    6   Queens Birthday      
   Sat      CanOpener   Auckland   
Jul   Sat   23&24   Panzershreck   Palmerston North   FoW LW Doubles
Aug   Sat   6   Fracas   Wanganui   600pts FoW MW
   Sat   6&7   TAGCon   Timaru   Various
   Sat   20&21   Call to Arms   Wellington   Various incl FoW
Sep   Sat      NappyCon   Hutt Valley   Napoleonics
   ??   ??   Fields of Blood   Wellington   40K
   ??   ??   Guardcon   Auckland   Fantasy, LotRs
   Sat   15&16   Orktober   Tauranga   Fantasy
Oct   Sat   29&30   Conquest   Christchurch   Variety incl FoW
   Sat   29&30   Northern Alliance   Whangarei   40K Doubles
   Mon   31   Labour Day      
Nov   Sat   12&13   Rallypoint   Hamilton   EW FoW, FoG, Napoleonics,Warmachine
   Sat   19&20   BF GT   Auckland   FOW  LW
   ??   ??   Masters      


Regards,
Rob

[Josh]

Thanks Rob, good to know!
For all interested, the player's pack has now been released. You can find in on the blog, in your email, or here: https://www.rapidshare.com/#!download|89|457802421|Tin_Soldiers_IV_Players_Pack.doc|78.848

[Simon]

the link to the player pack doesn't work.

[wouster7]

@ Simon

I've just downloaded it and it works.

@ Josh

Awesome, put me down.