FluffyCon 2011

[Bignic]

Come on Glenn - that kind of response really makes me doubt the ability of some people to adapt to the climate

Seconded

Check in the Hat of Power at the door or dont come through the door in the first place  :-)

N

[Nicholas]

PS. @Nick: please take a horde of Glade Riders, it would be like so totally awesome!!

I have about 30 some glade riders, so sadly a few short of a real horde. However, if I padded it out with my 18 or so wild riders we might be in business

Take 20 Glade Riders in horde formation. All the unwieldiness of a horde unit with none of the benefits. Win-win really. Same with 30 Eternal Guard. I'm expecting you to have at least these two units in your FluffyCon list.

[nik_]

Hey, c'mon, he said he didn't want lists that are so ridiculous they are no fun for your opponent...

[Glenn Patel]

Ok, point taken. One more time though - it's FluffyCon.

"Using all your power dice" and optimising your magic phase is so far from the aims and philosophy of this event... I can hardly begin to comprehend how much "talking people down" I'm going to have to do if the majority think that way.


Come on Glenn - that kind of response really makes me doubt the ability of some people to adapt to the climate

If I roll 6,6 and then use two dice on a bound and two dice on another bound, it's trivial for the opponent to dispel both. Heck, it's pretty easy if I roll a 4, 5 or 6 on either die (assuming they took a single level two). That's about two-thirds of all possible rolls for the magic phase.

Compared to the system as written, where you're likely to get one of the two bounds off.

Under one system, two warrior priests (okay, Daemonsmiths is what's going on in my mind) is theoretically a useful, if not dominating, magic phase. Under the other, they're not going to do anything.

Similarly, under one system, a single level two can be decent (although they need both their spells to be relevant) ; under the other, they can throw 8 dice total, maximum.


Two bound spells isn't a great magic phase to begin with, since there's no +2 to casting rolls. Nerfing it to uselessness is even more counterproduct ive.

This rule makes taking small amounts of magic worse than in normal warhammer, thus punishing people for taking a toned down 'fluffy' list.

If anything, you should go the opposite route. Make it so high level spellcasters can't (won'?) throw as many dice.

Actually, that's a good rule:

"Recklessness of Youth: Old Wizards become old wizards by being restrained in how much magic they are willing to draw from the winds. As such, Wizards will only use a number of dice equal to 7 minus their wizard level on any given spell. Wizards with the Loremaster special rule always count as level four for the purposes of this rule".

[Simon]

What do you think about this list?

Goblin warboss with toys
Level 4 goblin great shaman, naked
Goblin warboss on chariot with some toys

Goblin bigboss BSB naked

40 goblins FC
40 goblins FC

25 Night goblin FC with 2 fanatics
25 Night goblin FC with 2 fanatics

5 wolf riders
5 spider riders

2 snoltings
2 snoltings

2 X Wolf chariot
Rock lobber

Doom diver
6 trolls
Pump wagon

basically a "goblin" version of my current O&G list, which I had lots of fun using.

It has 3 lord level characters, but they are goblins after all.
Also have 3 chariots, happy to drop one and swap it for a squig herd or something.

still too hard?

[Glenn Patel]

Compare it to just banning a broken optional choice (i.e. the broken two lores). Power Scroll is going to be banned; choice of a particular lore is the same as choice of a particular magic item; you're not required to take it, so if you do your list should be judged accordingly.

[Simon]

Compare it to just banning a broken optional choice (i.e. the broken two lores). Power Scroll is going to be banned; choice of a particular lore is the same as choice of a particular magic item; you're not required to take it, so if you do your list should be judged accordingly.

how do you define broken lores?? personally I think all the lores are pretty good depend on which army you are up against, and also depend on if you have loremaster or ability that can improve the chance to get the spell you want.

 

[Nicholas]

Hey, c'mon, he said he didn't want lists that are so ridiculous they are no fun for your opponent...

Is it somehow your fault if your opponent steam rolls you because their list is too strong?

[Glenn Patel]

Compare it to just banning a broken optional choice (i.e. the broken two lores). Power Scroll is going to be banned; choice of a particular lore is the same as choice of a particular magic item; you're not required to take it, so if you do your list should be judged accordingly.

how do you define broken lores?? personally I think all the lores are pretty good depend on which army you are up against, and also depend on if you have loremaster or ability that can improve the chance to get the spell you want.

 

Death, for generating power dice and containing Purple Sun, and Life, for containing miscast protection and Dwellers.

I'm on the fence about Pit of Shadows too, but those two seem to be the ones that generate the most "aaargh that killed me and what could I do about it!?!". (Dwellers, in particular, has a high "aaaand 1/3 chance of killing that character as well as half his unit" factor)

[Fujin]

What do you think about this list?

Goblin warboss with toys
Level 4 goblin great shaman, naked
Goblin warboss on chariot with some toys

Goblin bigboss BSB naked

40 goblins FC
40 goblins FC

25 Night goblin FC with 2 fanatics
25 Night goblin FC with 2 fanatics

5 wolf riders
5 spider riders

2 snoltings
2 snoltings

2 X Wolf chariot
Rock lobber

Doom diver
6 trolls
Pump wagon

basically a "goblin" version of my current O&G list, which I had lots of fun using.

It has 3 lord level characters, but they are goblins after all.
Also have 3 chariots, happy to drop one and swap it for a squig herd or something.

I think this is a soft list but the final call obviously relies heavily on what "toys" you've taken. I'd also be looking at the ranked Trolls - not necessarily asking you to remove them (you do after all need SOMETHING in the list!). Replacing a couple of the Trolls or a Chariot with a Squig herd would be an excellent step. PM or email me the list with toys Simon and I'll give you some more useful feedback.

If the toys were unusual/rarely seen and/or sub-optimal and you could sneak some Squigs in there you'd be onto a winner and well on your way to a comp good bonus.

I do appreciate you posting it and seeking feedback

Have you got any Gobbo Archers? How  about some Squighoppers AND a ranked unit of Squigs?

[Fujin]

I'm going to trial "level + 2" (i.e. a L2 caster can throw max four dice at a spell/dispel) in a game tonight that has a couple of L2s and L1s on each side and some bound items. This means:

Didn't work. I managed a double Mage assassination in one turn followed up by Curse of Years. My opponent was forced into attempting to dispel it on 2-dice (as the army "level" was "0") and it was eventually killing guys on a 2+ (awesome but silly). Everyone will take a L4 by default which is exactly what I DON'T want at FluffyCon. Had big chats and a rethink with my opponent and the spectators and I reckon I've been approaching this all wrong.

I've in essence forgotten the nature of the event myself! Face palm!

I will red fleg big magic phases and just not allow stupid magic through. Gee, that was easy. Storm in a teacup stuff for a while there! Problem solved


- no capping of the dice (no one will have the Dagger, Rumination, dice storage options anyway)
- no changes to spell selection (naked L4 with a rarely seen Lore? i.e. not Life or Death?.. probably fine)
- no dropping of the number 6 spell from certain magic lores (part of the game and I know from personal experience @$&* happens, no one will have Loremaster abilities anyway)
- no changes to IF/miscasts, or IF dispels trumping IF casts
- no changes to magic levels contributing to casting or dispelling (if you want to go no magic levels at all you aren't being penalised and setting yourself up for a magical beating)


And most importantly the tournament will still be useful for us in terms of learning more about 8th edition at tournaments without some hack TO changing the rules Nice one Dave

[omegakai]

how would you rate this Dave
1 naked TK on a chariots
1 naked Linch
6x3 Units of chariots
6x5 units of fast Cav
2 scorpions
2 screaming catapults

I can easly drop the Catapults. but it would be fore more heroes and chariots.

feedback wellcome.

[Fujin]

Thanks for posting up another list.

King on Chariot - tick

Naked Lich - erm... tick. I'd rather you didn't actually - especially in the context of this particular list!!! He's got nowhere to hide! He can join the Cav (Chariot?) units but as a different unit type (infantry) he can be picked out. And on foot he restricts their movement too. A biit too fluffy I feel.

6 x 3 Chariots - Why are all the units 3-strong? Make one unit 4-strong, a couple 3-strong, one 6 strong in two ranks. No command options? You're auto-losing (or giving away a stack of VPs) Blood and Glory already.

6 x 5 Fast Cav - as above. A 2 x 5-strong, 1 x 10-strong (or make them Heavy Cav) with command.

2 Scorpions is standard for TKs but I don't think I have much of a problem with this choice. Could definitely get a swarm in there too though.

2 Catapults won't get through - I realise the chance of a double tap is highly unlikely but it just won't fly at this event.


What the list really lacks (and this is becoming a pattern with the lists you are submitting for open feedback) is diversity of unit selection. Where are the Skeletons on foot? How about a small unit of Tomb Guard? How about a Bone Giant? How about a small unit of Carrion? The aforementioned Swarms?

Some of those things will make the list more competitive - I have no problem with that at all. It will also make the games more interesting for your opponents - I'm very interested in seeing that happen!

[Vaul]

Rion you can borrow my TK models if you feel able to field a rare non-themed list

[Dirty_Vod]

Right, heres my list.
Vampire counts with 1 vampire and his mates (ghouls) all the rest of the list are "real" undead.

      
1   Wight lord - General, Hvy Armour, Great Weapon, Stupid hat (4+ward)   120
1   Wight lord - BSB, Hvy armour, Great Weapon, Gem of Blood    135
1   Necromancer - Van hals, invocation    70
1   Wight lord - Hvy armour, shield, barded steed, lance, hand of dust 157   
36   Skeletons - Full command, banner of endless nightmare    333
30   ghouls - ghast   248
7   black knights - barding, screaming banter, full command   276
20   Grave Guard - Full command, Great weapons  290
3   Spirit hosts   195
1   Vargulf      175
Total 1999

[Fujin]

Cheers.

[warpmaster]

Wight lord as General must be a typo,yea?

[Dirty_Vod]

Wight lord as General must be a typo,yea?

Nope totally on purpose - it's Fluffycon afterall 

like I said only 1 vampire in the army - the vargulf.

The 8th ed VC Faq makes it legal to take an army without a vampire as the general now.  I'm willing to bet that very few of you will have ever faced an undead (not TK) army without a vampire in it...

[warpmaster]

Ahhh neat

[Dirty_Vod]

Yep - pretty much an "Army of Krell" kind of theme.

Might need to get an easy win in round 1 though - maybe I should challenge Kitson 

[Fujin]

I think you have every chance of facing Ryan Simister if he turns up (and assuming Philfy continues his extended retirement) Either that or Darren makes the trip up...

[wouster7]

Where is Philfy these days? What with Vod 'the semi retired' and Philfy 'the Disappeared' warmachine must be getting a real boost in numbers 

[Simon]

looks like I can't take my current goblin list in fluffycon...

O&G will be the first fantasy army in 2011... written by the skaven army book author.

[Fujin]

Why is that Simon? Are you short on models?

Or are you dropping hints that you've found reliable rumours of the new O&G book?!?!

[Simon]

a little bit of both. 

[Fujin]

Ooooooh! If it's out early January it could be used at FluffyCon!

[Fodderboy]

Saying that Simon is short of Goblins is like suggesting that Wu needs a couple more elves.

[Derick]

I heard that gobbo's are getting a new gigantic spider with a fighting platform...
Arachnosaurus!

quote from BOLS:
Orcs & Goblins roughly Q1 2011 (the 3 contenders for next WFB releases are Ogres, O&G, Tomb Kings)

Jeremy Vetock as author.

Will be accompanied by several new plastic kits some of which are referenced in the 8th edition rulebook.

Sources say to look for a "Stegadon sized" kit of a massive forest spider - the "Arachnarok". This is hinted to have some type of topside fighting platform like the Steg and have tons of little spiders crawling all over. Multiple platform mounting options are mentioned, also analogous to the Steg.

New Savage Orcs are also mentioned.

[Fujin]

Should probably start up a new thread, but...

That does ring some alarm bells. In the White Dwarf 8th edition release issue there was a massive battle report (O&G vs Empire) and one of the players used a Squigadon (using the Lizardmen Stegadon rules).

[richardbarby]

Saying that Simon is short of Goblins is like suggesting that Wu needs a couple more elves.

best quote ever