FoB List discussion thread

[nik_]

If you've got a list you want some feedback on, or some opinions on what makes a list veto-worthy in you eyes, here is the place to post it.
Myself and the other veto 'judges' will not be making any yes or no judgements in this thread, but may give advice from time to time

[lockyreid]

thanks nick.
Right well with 8th edition I was very happy to be able to field two warp-lightning cannons with the 1 max rare cap gone. Do people think that 2 cannons is broken? If so I wont bring the second one but in my opinion I don't see two of them being a problem.

[Josh]

Personally if you had some other DECENT concessions, I'd be fine with that. Of course much depends on the rest of the list as always.

For example:
Verminlord
BSB
Engineer
Engineer
rats
rats
rats
more rats
WLC 1
WLC 2

No problemo...

However, if it's:
Grey Seer
Plague Priest w/furnace
BSB
Engineer
rats
rats
more rats
all the toys
HPA
WLC 1
WLC 2

You're dreaming. So yeah, totally depends on the rest of the list. Same with all (read: almost all) double rare choices in my books.

[Ry.S]

imo 2 WLC's is a bit rude lots of other raty things you could take and would be just as much fun.

[richardbarby]

how about horde units they can change a game if part of a ld bubble and bsb bubble. are you going to cap them

[pete dunn]

Eveyone else's lists are so unreasonable 

[PaW]

On the other hand, its free points if you engage it or it misfires

[nik_]

how about horde units they can change a game if part of a ld bubble and bsb bubble. are you going to cap them

There are guidelines in the pack to try and discourage super 'deathstar' units, as well as crazy huge hordes. 'Normal' hordes may well just become a feature of 8th that you have to learn to deal with.

[nik_]

On the other hand, its free points if you engage it or it misfires

Fast Cav seem to suck under 8th - until you consider how important warmachine hunting will be against certain opponents.

[pete dunn]

Fast Cav seem to suck under 8th - until you consider how important warmachine hunting will be against certain opponents.

There role has changed. They have a myriad of roles apart from warmachine hunting - however combat is not one of them 

[Fujin]

Played a rat list recently with Cannon, Plague Claw Catapult, HPA and two Plague Mortars (and a Seer for magical goodness). Was a fun game (no sarcasm) but the shooting was rife with misfires so not as effective as hoped. Combat was mad fun though - 6 Rat Ogres reamed a unit of Grave Guard with frightening efficiency before a slightly miffed Vampire Lord in a unit of Skellies with Flaming banner ate them up followed shortly later by an entire HPA.

Highlight of the game was (thanks to the Stepping Up rule) the Grey Seer dying to return attacks from Zombies (no Helm either!). Rargh!

Fortunately we convinced the Skaven player to drop the second Warp Lightning Cannon that he was planning on taking

End result was a 30pt win to the rats (playing combat-heavy VCs which had a sum total of two models left alive at the end of the game - the Lord and a Wight King).


FYI - Scouting Gutter Runners with multi-shot, 18" range, march and fire poison slings are the absolute bomb diggity! Varghulfs beware (and I speak here from experience)! And PCBs initiative of 3 makes all the difference (i.e. to whoever they are fighting).


Last night a unit of 5 Marauder Cav with throwing axes swiftly dealt with a unit of Gutter Runners before (just) failing a charge against an extremely vulnerable Seer in the wrong place at the wrong time (i.e. sucking down a Hellcannon shot on the head with enough RnF models to allow "Look Out, Sir!"; VERY lucky he only took 2 wounds). Could have been lights out for the Skaven general but for the fact that the Marauders rolled an inch short of charging.

And 37 Slaves held up 15 Khorne Warriors and a character for 3 turns (Steadfast Ld10 awesomeness).


There is so much rethinking to be done with this game. Lots of fun though!

[pete dunn]

And this is why it is important that TOs have a veto power and are prepared to use it - particularly where the aims of the tournament are to encourage newcomers. This list was supposedly  accepted at Pilgrimage after the Stank, 3 Cannons, 3 Mortars, 2 Helstrom list he allegedly submitted was rejected.

2300 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Lords

Death Lore High Sorceress (1#, 350 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress @ 350 pts (Druchii Sorcery; General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Sacrificial Dagger
1 Pendant of Khaeleth
1 Black Dragon Egg

Heroes

Hag Queen (4#, 225 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 225 pts (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer; Eternal Hatred; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)
1 Cauldron of Blood (Altar of Khaine; Attendents; Blessings of Khaine; Khainite; War Machine; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Frenzy; Magic Resistance (1); Poisoned Attacks)
2 Hags (Khainite; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred; Frenzy; Poisoned Attacks)

Shadows Lore Sorceress (1#, 160 pts)
1 Sorceress @ 160 pts (Druchii Sorcery; Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Dispel Scroll

Core

Warriors (30#, 225 pts)
29 Dark Elf Warriors @ 225 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)
1 Lordling (Hand Weapon; Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (10#, 115 pts)
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 115 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)

Repeater Crossbowmen (20#, 235 pts)
20 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowmen @ 235 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Light Armour; Shield; Eternal Hatred)

Special

Black Guard (15#, 280 pts)
14 Black Guard @ 280 pts (Warrior Elite; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Immune to Psychology; Stubborn)
1 Tower Master (Warrior Elite; Heavy Armour; Eternal Hatred; Immune to Psychology)
1 Crimson Death
1 Banner of Murder

Shades (7#, 119 pts)
7 Shades @ 119 pts (Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Eternal Hatred; Scouts; Skirmishers)

Shades (7#, 119 pts)
7 Shades @ 119 pts (Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Eternal Hatred; Scouts; Skirmishers)

Shades (6#, 96 pts)
6 Shades @ 96 pts (Hand Weapon; Repeater Crossbow; Eternal Hatred; Scouts; Skirmishers)

Cold One Chariot (1#, 100 pts)
1 Cold One Chariot @ 100 pts (Chariot; Scythed Wheels)
2 Crew (Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Eternal Hatred)
2 Cold One (Thick-skinned; Causes Fear; Stupid)

Cold One Chariot (1#, 100 pts)
1 Cold One Chariot @ 100 pts (Chariot; Scythed Wheels)
2 Crew (Repeater Crossbow; Spear; Eternal Hatred)
2 Cold One (Thick-skinned; Causes Fear; Stupid)

Rare

War Hydra (3#, 175 pts)
1 War Hydra @ 175 pts (Fiery Breath; Monsters and Handlers; Causes Terror; Eternal Hatred; Large Target; Regenerate; Scaly Skin)
2 Beastmaster (Hand Weapon; Eternal Hatred)
1 Beastmasters Scourge

Total Roster Cost: 2299

[Fujin]

Golly. Zzap... twang... thud... argh! That's a lot of (Death) Magic and Scouting machine guns!

Beginners tournament huh?


Pity it wasn't 2400pts. He could have worked in another 10 RXBs.

[nik_]

To be honest I do prefer it to the original list....
I see that it breaks at least 2 of the FoB guidelines

[pete dunn]

That was my thoughts Dave.....104 shots per turn, virtually guaranteed 12 PD per turn and Death Magic - so likely Purple Sun every phase.

I hope he plays grizzled veterans rather than spoil any newcomers' tournament experience.

[Fujin]

Hence having the guidelines there in the first place right? Sort of a nod towards "don't bother doing a combination of this stuff and wasting our time".

Also (theoretically) gives everyone an insight into where the "power level" of the event is pitched.


Pete - I hope he plays Skaven. High(ish) initiative, big numbers, lots of counter-shooting options and magic, Steadfast stuff all over the place.

EDIT - taking into account the Scouting Shade horror deploy Slaves to shield for the extra -2 to hit. Haha.

[Josh]

Agree with Pete. This kind of thing goes a long way to prove that the only people shouting for no comp/vetos at 8th ed tournaments are 3 year olds like that dude. How great would it be if TOs could trust the community not to be duche-bags?

[wouster7]

Lvl 4
Lvl2

BSB
Noble

20 SeaGuard
20 Seaguard

12 archers
12 archers
2 RBT

Swordmasters
Dragon Pronces
2 chariots

How would people feel about this list? Genuine opinions welcome, grumpy trolls should reserve their opinions and stay home and pretend to be a girls blouse in front of a mirror

[richardbarby]

what happened to betsy phil?

i think my chaos dwarfs could give it a run what lore,s will you be running. and is that 2400

[Big D]

Breaks the shooting guideline, other than that, fairly squishy

[richardbarby]

i think it needs an eagle unless you have some slow down/ stop war machine plans

[wouster7]

@Big D

Yeah it breaks the shooting caps so I thought I'd get some clarification. It doesn't have splatter template goodness so I don't think judges will mind. Ultra squishy as you've mentioned so anyone with whiff of cheese should rip into this skirt party. What say you T.O?

@Rich

Yeah it does include 1 Eagle which I forgot to put in.
Betsy only gets fielded for special occassions and special ppl that are special enough for da special bus, no names mentioned

[pete dunn]

Does the Lvl 4 have the Book of Hoeth? Is there a Banner of Sorcery?

What Lores are the Mages taking? Lvl 4 - Life? Shadow? Lvl 2 - High?

All those things are relevant.

[Vaul]

Does the Lvl 4 have the Book of Hoeth? Is there a Banner of Sorcery?

What Lores are the Mages taking? Lvl 4 - Life? Shadow? Lvl 2 - High?

All those things are relevant.

Quite right - there's nothing to say about this list really, unless you open it up a little and tell us what items you're running. 

[wouster7]

@pete

No book o 'I'm Teclis' or banner o sorcery. You guessed the laws right as I'm um arrring over life or shadows for Lvl 4 and metl for Lvl2. It's not a solely reliant on combo's army I want to take it as its a soft needing some solid handling to get anywhere with list.

[Simon]

looks good, Phil.

even with book of Hoeth, I don't it is that hard.

[that guy the Master]

I thought the shooting cap was 45 models. I can't see the point of having the guidlines if 60+ and RBTs is OK

Thumbs down from me.

[PaW]

zzzzz... they are guidelines ........... not caps

[that guy the Master]

But there is no point in having guidlines if they are ignored. The players pack gives us these guidlines and explains them. Out of courtesy to the TO (and avoid disappointment) it is advisable to give make some effort to adhere to them.

[Josh]

I wouldn't risk submitting that. Without RBTs, maybe. Maybe drop the archers and an RBT for a big unit of PG or something. At least then it appears like you're going to commit to the enemy at some stage.