FOB 2010 FAQ thread

[nik_]

This thread will cover all updates to the players pack for FOB. Try to keep posts relevant!

[Derick]

How do we pay?

[nik_]

Cash at the club, or bank deposit (internet or otherwise). Details on that will be given out upon registration.

[Vaul]

I'm hoping to run my grey seer on screaming bell.  Despite some significant improvements to this setup from 7th, such as 2+ ward save against magic etc, it's still not preferable to a furnace.  Yet he as a single unit is 510 points - do you think this will be a problem given your recommendation not to take any single unit that is worth such a high amount of points?

[nik_]

The guidelines are just guidelines, and that particular guideline is more an attempt to minimise the use of crazy deathstar units. If it turns out that that limit is too low, we can look at increasing it. Regardless. depending on the rest of the list, I'm sure the Grey Seer on bell is fine.

[Fodderboy]

A couple of questions:
1 - Do Flag of the Blood Keep and Wristbands of Black Gold, which provide ward saves vs ranged attacks, provide ward saves vs hexes that do damage after the fact (Lore of Fire - Fulminating Flame Cage, Lore of Light - Net)
2 - Which happens first, Miscast Table, or Lore of Shadows character swap?

I'll likely post more, but those actually effect my build.

[nik_]

Q: Do the VP charts make it too hard to get big wins?

A: Yes, this might be the case. These may be revised closer to the event.

[nik_]

Q: Do Rhinox/Bull Rhinox get stomp or thunderstomp attacks?
 
A: Unless any other group comes out with a better FAQ/Errata, the smaller Rhinox get Stomp and the larger Bull Rhinox get Thunderstomp.

[lockyreid]

Because you have said that some restrictions apply less to some races...

Q. What other units apart from goblin bosses and eagles can bypass the other restrictions?

Saves everyone, who thinks their unit shouldn't fit this restriction, asking you personally. I can understand capping rares at 1 each because of Stanks, SSCs etc but some rares aren't so broken that having two ruins peoples day. Some people may think this and therefore suffer a -10points because you havent really put a hard cap on it.

[Derick]

Going along with those restriction questions on Rares...
I was going to take multiple packs of Salamanders, but these restrictions put the stop on that idea.
  600 pts = 8 packs of single sali units

[nik_]

Q. What other units apart from goblin bosses and eagles can bypass the other restrictions?

A: I am not prepared to qualify exactly what will and will not be likely to be vetoed. This will be left up to the good judgement of players - if you think you are pushing the boundaries, then you probably are.
I hope that the player pack gives an indication of why the guidelines are in place - to ensure that everyone brings reasonable balanced lists that are fun to play against. If you keep that idea in mind you should be ok.
If you are intending to break some of the guidelines I strongly suggest posting some list ideas on the forum, and discussing it with other players before submitting.

[nik_]

I was going to take multiple packs of Salamanders, but these restrictions put the stop on that idea.
  600 pts = 8 packs of single sali units

See, there's a reason there are guidelines

[lockyreid]

If you are intending to break some of the guidelines I strongly suggest posting some list ideas on the forum, and discussing it with other players before submitting.

Where should I discuss this? I don't want to clutter this thread as it should be about the players pack rather then individual lists.

[nik_]

If you are intending to break some of the guidelines I strongly suggest posting some list ideas on the forum, and discussing it with other players before submitting.

Where should I discuss this? I don't want to clutter this thread as it should be about the players pack rather then individual lists.

If you want to discuss lists and 'comp', do so here

[Fujin]

The 1" rule...

(Summarised) Units may not move within an inch of each other, enemy units, or impassable terrain unless they are charging.


Could I please have some clarification on this interacts with resolving a combat where pursuing or overrunning would take you within 1" of an enemy unit? Or where you charge multiple units into an enemy and at the end of combat (assuming the enemy breaks) you are within an inch of a friendly unit?

[nik_]

Q: Do I have to specify the lore that my wizards will be using when I submit my list?

A: Yes, we are following the rulebook instructions.

[pete dunn]

The 1" rule...

(Summarised) Units may not move within an inch of each other, enemy units, or impassable terrain unless they are charging.


Could I please have some clarification on this interacts with resolving a combat where pursuing or overrunning would take you within 1" of an enemy unit? Or where you charge multiple units into an enemy and at the end of combat (assuming the enemy breaks) you are within an inch of a friendly unit?

Haven't you answered your own question Dave? 

GW had the chance to clarify/amend in the FAQ and made no mention. On that basis it is clearly part of the rules that you can not overrun/pursue within 1" unless charging

[pete dunn]

One thing that wasn't addressed in the FAQ concerned direct/indirect fire with a stone thrower.

The important rules are as follows:

(Pg 114)"To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere completely within the war machine's line of sight, outside the stone thrower's minimum range and within its maximum range."

(Pg 115) "An indirect shot does not require line of sight but is otherwise treated as a normal shot....."

Now I would contend that these two rules only cover two of potentially three possibilities.

The first rule is clearly a direct shot but the phrase "completely within the war maxchine's line of sight" is restrictive. The second rule is clearly an indirect shot and this does not require any line of sight.

So what about the third possibility? Where the target is within line of sight but the template can't be placed completely within the war machine's line of sight". I don't believe that the rules cover this possibility. The recent FAQ gives us nothing to go on either for this instance.

If asked to rule at a tournament one way or the other I would be inclined to go with a hybrid - if you can place the template so the centre hole is over the target model and completely in line of sight then it is a direct shot.

This ruling is clearly assumption because as I said I don't believe we have an answer in the rulebook.

Any idea how it will be played at Guardcon?

[lockyreid]

Haha, beat me to it Pete.

[Fujin]

The 1" rule...

Haven't you answered your own question Dave? 

Maybe I have... certainly having played and watched a few games it feels counter-intuitive to the point of ruining the dynamic and flow of a battle. Or maybe I don't care enough about the win to screw the other guy by playing on a rule that it is noted in the rulebook as being purely for clarity and being able to distinguish units from each other.

Feels to me (lol, listen to me... Rules As Intended ) that the 1" rule is a guideline that players should be sensible about. The whole vibe of 8th is a more relaxed game, chill out with some mates, have some laughs. I'd be sorely disappointed to find a tournament opponent who felt it was worth niggling about something that prevented other (major) game mechanics from operating (pursuit, overrun, multiple charges, random movement).


Re: the template warmachine thing. We've been playing that if the entire template is in line of sight it's a direct shot. Direct shots tend to not happen very often due to terrain and units. On the flip side, template are horrendous with no partials (and the machines often - note, not always - are quite cheap points-wise), it brings ballistic skill into the equation (which makes things more interesting and the skill of the crew more relevant), and with all the units wandering around the shots often hit stuff anyway.

Personal interpretation (and can't quote you stuff from the rulebook to directly support it) but it's been a lot of fun and worked really well. Especially for those armies who cannot obtain a template attack from a warmachine

[pete dunn]

Oh shit, Dave's taken the moral high ground away from me and made me look like a dirty filthy RAWyer

[Fujin]

You are what you eat...

Oooooooooh!!!!


Nah, just expressing my feelings that the rule could be taken to the point of utter legalism. Yes, it wasn't FAQ'd so it may be we should expect to play it to the absolute letter. Just doesn't look to me personally like it helps the game along at certain times.

[nik_]

One thing that wasn't addressed in the FAQ concerned direct/indirect fire with a stone thrower.

GW had the chance to clarify/amend in the FAQ and made no mention. On that basis it is clearly part of the rules that you...

should count it as an indirect shot if the whole template cannot be placed completely within the war machine's line of sight.

Your point does seem valid, but I'd rather wait and see some more games before making a decision. Hopefully it will be FAQd in the mean time.

[lockyreid]

Q. Can you use a feedback scroll on a spell cast with a double 6?

[Josh]

Q. Can you use a feedback scroll on a spell cast with a double 6?

No.

...read it instead of attempting to dispel the spell.

...a spell cast with irresistible force is impossible to dispel - your opponent cannot even attempt to prevent the magical mayhem soon to be unleashed...

[pete dunn]

Can you use the Standard of Discipline to increase the General's Leadership by +1 and then transfer it via Inspiring Presence to the rest of the army?

At Pilgrimage the Head referee Marcelo Roucco has said no as per:

>The description of the Std of Discipline says that models in the unit cannot use the General's Inspiring Presence Special rule, as it went to the trouble of saying models, not just the unit, using rules as written, I will say that this means that if The General joins the unit, as a model within the unit, he can no longer use his Inspiring Presence Rule and hence cannot give his leadership at all to any other unit, not even at his base Ld value, for as long as he is in the unit with this Standard<

Certainly the ability to increase an Army's Leadership by 1 for 15 points seems to be a bit of an Easter Egg - especially when compared to other 15 point items.

Nick- How will it be ruled at Guardcon?

[Fodderboy]

Does the Banner of Sundering need to have it's lore decided at list construction (as pr casters who could choose among several lores), or will it be decided each game(flaming beardy cheese)?

[Glenn Patel]

Max 4 warmachines. This includes Daemon Engines, Steam Tanks, Hell
Cannons, Anvils of doom and other similar models that fire a missile
weapon that is significantly more powerful than normal.


1) Does that mean Indy CDorfs are in? Because even as a CDorf player, I find allowing the Indy Annihilators to be a questionable choice.*

2) If it does... does that mean taking more than four leadbelchers is considered questionable and dubious? 'cause one on the Daemon Engines is pretty much on par with a Leadbelcher in terms of firepower provided... (sorry, but the decision to count Eruption Guns as war machines ticked me off in 7th ed too... it fires handgun shots. More than one, it is true, but it rolls to hit just like everyone else... and the Indy core shooting options are the EGuns, the non-8th-friendly Annihilators, and BS 3 troops with bows/short bows. If an Empire list with 30 handgunners and 3 war machines is 'totally fine, no issues, well under caps', three e-guns and 3 war machines should be given merciful treatment...

* - they kill ~20% of target unit if they shoot at it. In the land of horde... tsk tsk.

[nik_]

Can you use the Standard of Discipline to increase the General's Leadership by +1 and then transfer it via Inspiring Presence to the rest of the army?

At Pilgrimage the Head referee Marcelo Roucco has said no

I'd actually be quite keen to run with any decisions made for Pilgrimage. We can dissect them after the event to see if any need changing. Are you able to provide a link to these decisions?

[nik_]

1) Does that mean Indy CDorfs are in?

Please read the player pack fully

... does that mean taking more than four leadbelchers is considered questionable and dubious? 'cause one on the Daemon Engines is pretty much on par with a Leadbelcher in terms of firepower provided...

Demon Engines includes Eruption Guns, Death Rockets and Earthshaker Cannons. Please understand that the guidelines are just guidelines which should result in a nice balanced list. If you feel like you want to take 5 Eruption Guns, we are not going to stop you, unless we think that your list in it's entirety constitutes something that other players are not going to enjoy playing against. 5 Deathrockets however are probably over the top