8th edition rumors

[wouster7]

Is he entered?

Reid doesn't know if he can attend the tournament just yet. So I'm still open for a grudge match if anyone's keen. Of course we have to pass it with the TO

[Simon]

Allied Forces
Allied forces will not get a % allocation. However, rules for using allied forced (i.e. an updated allied forces chart) are in the rulebook.
Allies are now split into 3 groups:

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings
The allies rules are intended to be used by more than 2 players. You are not supposed to use more than one armybook in your army.
Allies are allowed to use the other army General’s leadership, but cause panic in units of the other army if they are forced to flee. If an allied unit is forced to flee through another ally from a different group, the stationary unit counts as dangerous terrain. I.e. High Elves flee through Warriors of Chaos.

You may measure distances whenever you want.

Charging.
Rumoured to be:

Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 use 2 highest) ##WTF?? fast attack?? they really gonna make fantasy like 40k??

+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)


Failed Charge

• Rumoured to be the higher die of your 2D6 roll (+ basic movement).

Fliers
Move 10 " and march 20 ". They ignore terrain whilst moving. While fleeing or pursuing, they use their ground movement. (note: the ground movement part may not be entirely correct)

Marching.
Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Reforming
Units may reform once, but may neither move nor shoot the same turn. If the unit has a musician, it may move afterwards, or shoot. (Note: I'm pretty sure I'm missing some details on that one.)


Heavy cavalry
Unchanged. Rumour was wrong, heavy cav march as normal. ## rumor changed



Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)
Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
You may not channel while fleeing, off the board or when you suffer from stupidity..

Maximum Power and Dispel Dice
The maximum number of power or dispel dice you may have at any time is 12. This includes any power/dispel dice generated by special rules, spells and/or magic items.

Casting Spells
To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.
It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:
When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.

Lost Control Chart
Roll of 1: This has been confirmed as being even worse than number 4… Which (pure speculation) may involve every model in the unit taking a hit, this was something I actually heard a while back, but it could be worse than this.

Roll of 4: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for something (could be the centre model, meaning S5 for the rest?).


Determining Spells
Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice...
Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.
There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.


Bound spells
Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. (Not 100 % sure on this one)
Every magic user has access to the pool.
Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian
Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
Each lore to get a mega spell.
Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (more likely)
If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast, they just cannot cast any more spells that magic phase. -Avian (more likely)
Some spells will scale up.


Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.
Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
Curses: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment
Buffs: Support your own troops
Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
Power whirls: Apply to all of the battlefield or move across the table.!?

Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the caster is granted a Bonus of +3 when casting a fire spell upon the same target.
Missiles:
Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.
Curses:
Buffs:
Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound. This causes flaming attacks and ignores armour saves.
Missiles:
Curses:
Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type.
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:


SHOOTING

Salvo Fire
A rumour I heard a while back was that units with bows (see above), could fire with more than just 2 ranks. What I am being told now is that regardless of the width of the unit, a unit with bows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots.


True Line of sight
Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.


COMBAT

Supportive Attacks
Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
This is only for models fighting to the front. Units charged in the flank or rear only fight in 1 rank, but being charged in the flank or rear will not stop units fighting in multiple ranks to the front.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.


Rank bonuses
Unchanged. Up to 3.

One Save.
A model can always take an armour save. They can then take either a ward save or a regeneration save. sounds more reasonable.

Crush them!
Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)

Destroy them!
Larger Creatures and Monsters do D6 attacks instead of 1 attack for crush them. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)


Change to Wound table
All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

Breath Weapons
Now apply in close combat, dealing 2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength. This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.


Parry
The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save.

Always Strike First
ASL combined with ASF cancel each other out. Strike in initiative order.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy
You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). You may suppress charging with a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance
This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

For things that already have a Ward Save, Flesh Hounds for instance, they have a 5+ Ward save already, and MR(3). This gives them a 5+ save against shooting/ combat, and a 2+ Ward Save against magic.

Regeneration
Regeneration will come in several types. The Slanns ability for example will grant him Regeneration (3+), while there is a mundane magic item that grants regeneration (6+).

[/list]

[grumpy old smurf]

and these ones from test games in europe... probly doubling up.... sorry in advance

Army construction is moving back to percentages.
Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
Crush attack for larger creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks (?)
Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves).
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
Copies for Staff available early May


25% min core
25% lord 25% hero.

Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).

This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with their normal number of attacks from the second rank (more likely).

10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian

Stubborn
If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry

Unit Strength
Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian

Rank bonuses
Unchanged. Up to 3.


Monstrous Creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally). (?)


Striking in Initiative order
Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).


Outnumbering Enemy
There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Parry
The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save. (?)

Terror comes with a chance to run away.

Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy
You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). You may suppress charging with a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance
This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

MAGIC ITEMS

Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.
10-20 items in each category.


Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
15 or so missions in the new rulebook.

Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...). This appears to be D6 for every model, on a 1 a model is lost. This is only the tip of the iceberg…
Finding a magic item in the woods.

There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous.

Allied Forces

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings

Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.

There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
You may measure distances whenever you want.

Charging.
Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 (use 2 highest) (?)
+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)

Marching.
Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Skirmishers
Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -
Still rank up in combat. DO NOT have 360 Line of sight.

MAGIC

Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)
Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
Maximum Power and Dispel Dice
Casting Spells
To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.
It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:

When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.


Determining Spells
Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.

(As far as I have heard the 'basic' spell of each Lore is in addition to the normally generated spells, much like Invocation of Nehek for Vampire Counts).

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast

Spells are now categorized.

SHOOTING

Bows fire in 2 ranks as standard.
Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows fire in two ranks. Units armed with handguns, crossbows, anything else fire in 1 rank - Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now.

Salvo Fire
A rumour I heard a while back was that units with bows (see above), could fire with more than just 2 ranks. What I am being told now is that regardless of the width of the unit, a unit with bows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots.

True Line of sight
Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines
Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter.

And some of my own observations:
Scenarios are a big part of the game but it will still be possible to play normal pitched battles.

The turn sequence remains the same. Movement, Magic, Shooting, Combat.

The scenario I've seen had a piece of terrain in the middle, a Chaos temple. Before the beginning of the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any (not just Core) unit there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)

There were mystical woods that contained unknown dangers (or possibly rewards). What exactly a wood does is rolled the first time a unit peeks its nose in there and it will retain this property for the rest of the game. For example, if a unit inside a specific wood is target of a spell, it takes a dice roll's amount of (S6?) hits, and the wood moves away in a random direction.

There are no other restrictions on characters other than the aforementioned 25/25 so it is entirely possible to have entire 'units' made up of cheap Heroes, for example Skaven, Gobbos or Skinks. Not sure if I like that though.

US has been entirely discarded. There is no more outnumbering and therefore no autobreaking from Fear/outnumbering.

Terror's Aura is gone; apparently it works now like a stronger form of Fear.

Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game. This may allow for first-turn charges of carelessly placed War Machines.

Magic Items:

Staff of Channeling (Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6)

Screaming Blade:
Bearer causes Fear (like that wasn't a standard item in every army anyway)

Potion of Strength:
20 points, +D3 S for one turn

Potion of Toughness:
20 points, +D3 T for one turn

(I think Teclis might like these)

When you destroy an enemy unit you can apparently either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking. This will go great lengths at improving mobility of units.

Skirmishers do now have flanks and rear like like ranked units and normal non-360 degrees view. They shoot normally from 2 ranks. However when not charging they may reform on the move as often as they wish and also MARCH AND SHOOT!!!!!

Note that while now fighting in a 'semi-formation', Skirmishers still get no rank bonus.

Since Unit Strength is gone, it can no longer be used to negate rank bonus. Instead you need a unit that has at least 2 ranks to do so. This means that cavalry as currently fielded will not break ranks.

With fighting in 2 ranks, spears, 10+ models rule and HE bonus it means that HE Spearmen will be able to strike from 5 ranks. Ouch. So much for the doomsayers that saw the army ruined. Maybe the humble HE Core will see more action soon...

Obviously taken with a grain of salt even at this stage but from the above the big changes to me are:
- skirmishers no longer having 360 degree line of sight
- the random charge moves
- failing to cast does NOT mean a miscast
- 25% lord and 25% hero (as opposed to 25% total characters)
- removal of miscasts but addition of a loss of control chart when rolling irresistable forces
- fast cav possibly getting a free 12 inch move before the game

[richardbarby]

any early ideas on new tears for the armys whats going up whats going down will orcs be 2nd tear will deamonds go down

[nik_]

Wood Elves look like they're on the way down (further down! ). Not much in the way of ranked armoured troops or warmachines to take advantage of the good stuff, while the skirmishers seem to be reduced in effectiveness and the cavalry can no longer break ranks. Might be time to crank out the ranked Treekin
Firing in 2 ranks archers is nice, but we need that less than other armies because of the no move-and-shoot penalty.

[richardbarby]

20 dryads ? with full command that where your heading

[dave grant]

So, if what above is true, you don't think March and shoot waywatchers, first turn wild rider charges.... are good?

I'd play the game a  bit first - you'll probably find that what you take for Wood Elves might change, but the list as a whole seems OK - based on the 'rumours'.

[nik_]

It's not all doom and gloom, though I actually hadn't read about fast cav's possible pre game move before I posted that. I just don't think we're getting any huge boost out of it. It's not going to stop me playing Wood Elves by any means

[Simon]

So, if what above is true, you don't think March and shoot waywatchers, first turn wild rider charges.... are good?

I'd play the game a  bit first - you'll probably find that what you take for Wood Elves might change, but the list as a whole seems OK - based on the 'rumours'.

rumors said fast cavalry gets 12" scout move like 40k, but cannot charge on the first turn.
rumors also said killing blow will be way better than now, you can killing blow anything up to ogre size.

It's not all doom and gloom, though I actually hadn't read about fast cav's possible pre game move before I posted that. I just don't think we're getting any huge boost out of it. It's not going to stop me playing Wood Elves by any means  

I think it is really hard to tell which armies are getting any huge boost until the rulebook and FAQ actually come out and after some test play.

[wouster7]

HE spears fight in 5 ranks... sic... run for your mummas!

[warpmaster]

HE spears fight in 5 ranks... sic... run for your mummas

Na ,Sea Guards wheres its at.With the salvo rule and shooting in two ranks.(rumors has it theres new Seaguard models on the way too)

[Big D]

20 Dwarf Thunderers/Quarrellers w/great weapons and shields firing in two ranks. You'll never see a standard dwarven warrior again 

[Derick]

20 Dwarf Thunderers/Quarrellers w/great weapons and shields firing in two ranks. You'll never see a standard dwarven warrior again 

you can't use a shield, if your using a great weapon(you can still take it, but you'd have to decide whether your using handweapon/shield or Great Weapon). Unless the new rules have the stunties growing an extra hand. (If they grew an extra foot, would they still be stunties)

[Big D]

I realise that, but you would still give them sheilds (or maybe not). Either blocks of heavy dwarf infantry are looking good in 8th

[Derick]

I realise that, but you would still give them sheilds (or maybe not). Either blocks of heavy dwarf infantry are looking good in 8th

As do Chaos Warriors , the difference being, Chaos do not have much in the way of Firepower.

[Fujin]

As do Chaos Warriors , the difference being, Chaos do not have much more in the way of magic.

Changed that for you.

[Simon]

You have to take a minimum of 3 units, not including characters.

If you are playing games over 3000pts with allied forces, one general has to be nominated as the Grand General, who increases his leadership radius to 18".

Chaos Dwarfs are not in the book.

Failed Charge
• I think you only move the result of the D6's you rolled, you do not add on your basic movement.

Fliers
• While fleeing or pursuing, they move 3D6"

Reforming
• In the Remaining Moves phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free, as long as the unit passes a leadership test. You can shoot, but count as moving.

• Charging Skirmishers, you line up to them, not them to you.
• Skirmishers are NOT stubborn in a forest. I think this is Wood Elves only.

Lost Control chart:

Another result: All your wizards take a Str 6 hit with no armor saves
11-12 result: Your caster lose d3 wizard levels, and forgets that many spells.


Bound spells
• Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. They do not roll on the Loss of Control table, the items are just destroyed if they roll the double 6. Bound abilities like the warrior priests they just forget the spell.

Lore of Fire

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the casting costs of Lore of Fire spells on the same target is lowered by d3, cumulative.

Lore of Metal
Basic Spell (name): D6 flaming hits, No armor saves allowed. casting value 10

Lore of Beasts
(name). Caster Buff. The level 6 beast spell has 2 (possibly 3 casting values). The caster BECOMES the creature, not summoned on any board edge etc.

At 16+
Mountain Chimera
S7 T7 W10, Fly, 4D6 attacks! complexity is 24. mage has to be on foot. Remains in play.


20+
Greater Fire Dragon
WS8 S8 T8 W8 A8 Ld9, breathweapon S5, scaly skin 2+, terror, fly. mage has to be on foot. Remains in play

Something for a Hydra as well, I don’t know any more about this.

Lore of Heavens
• 'Something' Razor (not sure of the name). Unit Buff. The units strength are their Ld stat.
• Several levels of Comet. It scales up.

Lore of Life

Special Bonus: Every time the caster successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Life he can restore a wound to one model within 12”

• Basic spell: Shooting -1 to hit modifier and -1 leadership. If the enemy didn’t use BS they are 4+ to shoot. 7+

Forest Lord: Magic missile attack to any enemy unit within 18" of a forest. Or D6 strength 5 hits or 2d6 strength 5 hits to a unit in the forest.

Regeneration (name?): Unit Buff. Regeneration (6+) to one unit within 12”

Master of Stone: Unit Buff. +2 Toughness to one unit. Casting value 8

Regrowth (name?). Unit Buff. One unit regains D3+1 wounds/models, just like invocation (champ first, then musician/standard, then rank and file. Characters are selected separately)

Throne of Vines: Caster Buff. If this is successfully cast it increases the effect of other lore of life spells made by the caster: Regeneration becomes 5+, Master of Stone becomes +4 Toughness!!!, Forest Lord all hits become Strength 6, Regrowth regains D6+1 wounds. Something for the 6th spell as well.

I heard something about an immunity to miscast on a 2+ for the lore of life, but I don’t know if this is their 6th spell, a remains in play caster buff.

Stone Thrower
• Reduced to S3(9), armour saves are allowed.


Make Way
• After charges, before even impact hits are done, a champion can move to the front of the attacked rank.


One Save..
I'm just going to move this back here again for now. Armour saves as normal, then either Ward Saves OR regeneration. This is coming from 1 person who has read the book, and another who has been very reliable in the past.

Crush them! or Stomp, one of these names. 1 rank only

Quick to Fire
• Pistols, thrown weapons, and blowpipes Dont suffer the -1 to hit while moving. These are also the only weapons you can stand and shoot with if the enemy charges you from within their basic movement range.


Fear and Terror: It may be you get to keep your full amount of attacks.

Frenzy
What I am hearing about this is that if the enemy is within Movement +12”, you have to take a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Mounts no longer are granted frenzy/hated/etc from riders.


Magic Resistance
• It seems magic resistance does not work at all against Curses (or Hexes), only against magic missiles, direct damage and power whirls.

Strider..(insert type of terrain)
• A new special rule. This allows you to treat the type of terrain in brackets as open terrain. For instance Strider (Forests). There is a plain Strider that allows you to treat everything as open terrain (presumably not buildings).

Regeneration
Flaming attacks play a much bigger role. People with flaming weapons cause Fear in War Beasts (hounds etc), chariots, and Monsters. When you have regeneration and are wounded by flaming attacks, you lose regeneration until the next phase (combat to combat for example).


Magic Items
Scarecrow: Banner. 5 Points, makes the unit cause fear to flyers.
(name?): Banner. Plain Strider, which means you ignore all terrain (except buildings I think).
Dispel Scroll: As normal.

There are some other Scrolls I keep hearing about, but I don't know the full details yet:
4+ ward against wounds done by the spell used.
Irresistible force on every double.
Something about turning someone into a frog..

Terrain
Cavalry treat all non-open terrain as Dangerous Terrain

[Josh]

The closer things get to the release of 8th, the less I believe the rumours. Seriously, summoning a 10W monster? Uh-ha...

[wouster7]

Two things I noticed and wondered if theres more people playing 5th and 6th edition out there at the moment than originally thought.

1. Archers will fire in two ranks as per High elves.  'So currently those cheesy Elves get to fire in 2 ranks '

2. Skirmishers are not stubborn in a forest.  ' So at the moment skirmishers are stubborn in a forest... no one told me

Thanks for the great work digging things up but I'm getting more confused than I normally am

[Philfy]

The closer things get to the release of 8th, the less I believe the rumours.

It helps to keep the unamusing amused Josh   

[grumpy old smurf]

im unamusing and amused fantapants.

oz independent retailers doing pre orders at $125 oz.

[nik_]

• Skirmishers are NOT stubborn in a forest. I think this is Wood Elves only.

I may have just wet myself with excitement...

[Simon]

Skirmishers are NOT stubborn in a forest. I think this is Wood Elves only.

Sorry, my fault, I skipped a few updates,

"previous rumor was all skirmishers are stubborn in forest."

latest update is "Skirmishers are NOT stubborn in a forest. I think this is Wood Elves only."

Seriously, summoning a 10W monster? Uh-ha...

gayway gateway exists right?? I can't see why summoning a 10W monster won't.

[Josh]

gateway exists right?? I can't see why summoning a 10W monster won't.

If you ever actually play a game with a Gateway list, I'm sure you'll change your mind. Against average magic defense I've found you can expect to get Gateway off around twice a game. That means if you're lucky, you may insta-kill a unit one in three games. Besides, there are plenty of spells as game-winning as Gateway (Dreaded 13th, Pit of Shades, Unseen Lurker, Cloying Quagmire, Spirit of the Forge, etc), they just tend to require less blind luck.

Summoning gigantic monsters that can then charge 20" (same turn if they move magic before charges) changes the entire mechanic of magic in Warhammer. Traditionally, magic revolves around damage output and a bit of buffing (4+ ward, cause fear, healing, etc). Proposing to allow magic to summon dragons is beyond ridiculous. With no hard caps this magic will only achieve two things: 1) every man and his dog will take 3 naked lvl 4's as their lord character allowance and dragon spam every turn, 2) every man's brother will take 6 dispel scrolls.

Yay for the fun that will be.

[Simon]

I don’t agree at all.
Firstly, all phases remain the same, so movement before magic. So even the caster transforms into a dragon, it won’t be able to move or charge until next turn.
Secondly, power dices per turn are determined by 2D6, so on average you get around 6 or 7 dices per phase and summon greater fire dragon needs 20+, so a level 4 on average needs to roll 5 dices to get it off.
Thirdly, summon greater fire dragon is a remain in play spell, which mean you can try to stop it again in your magic phase with your power dice or scroll it.
Fourthly, in 8th edition, no 2 spells from the rulebook lores can be duplicated in the army, so you can’t take 3 naked lvl 4 and spam dragons.

Gateway on the other hand is a totally different story in 8th edition.
Firstly, it is not a “rulebook lores” so unless FAQ stated otherwise, it can be spam.
Secondly, casting value is 16, then -1 for being tzeentch then -4 for being level 4 so on average needs 3-4 power dices to get it off.
Thirdly, since 8th edition tends to encourage large unit, so gateway suddenly becomes a must stop spell because most ppl are usually reluctant to watch their unit of 40+ models disappear off the table.

[Fujin]

What Simon said. Plus to quote Josh:

Besides, there are plenty of spells as game-winning as Gateway (Dreaded 13th, Pit of Shades, Unseen Lurker, Cloying Quagmire, Spirit of the Forge, etc), they just tend to require less blind luck.

[Josh]

6 dispel scrolls it is then.

[Philfy]

For the...  amusement...

[Glenn Patel]

Remember, no duplicates of spells. That said, scrolls won't auto-dispel any more. Still, you should have enough dice, and keep in mind total power makes it a complete luck thing - like Gateway is now!

[Simon]

Nothing really new here for those following the discussions.

Pursuit
• When you charge and reach a fleeing unit, you only wipe it out if you pass a Ld test. Edit. I believe this rumour is wrong.


Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus: Any flier wounded by spells from the lore of heavens takes an additional D6 strength 4 hit.
• Urions Thunderbolt. Magic Missile. The same as 7th edition, but D6 strength 6 hits now.


Blizzard. Hex. Anything that uses a BS to shoot has a -1 to hit modifier. Anything that doesn't use BS can only shoot on 4+. 6+ to cast.


(name). Hex. Can be cast on an enemy unit within 12". The unit must re-roll any 6's to hit, to wound, or for their armour save. The scaled up version is any unit within 24".


(name). Unit Buff. Any friendly unit within 12" of the caster can re-roll all 1s from to hit rolls, wound rolls, and armour save rolls. 6+ to cast. The scaled up version is any unit within 24". 12+ to cast.


Wind. Direct Damage. The enemy unit is pushed back D3+1" directly away from the wizard. If the unit hits any terrain it takes D6 S 3 hits. If the unit hits another unit both units take D6 S 3 hits. 7+ to cast. The scaled up version pushes units back D6+2". 14+ to cast.


Chain Lightning. Direct Damage. D6 strength 6 hits on a unit within 24" of the wizard. After you determine the results roll a dice on a 3+ you may choose a unit within 12" of the previous unit hit and then that unit is hit by D6 strength 6 hits. This continues until you roll a 1 or 2. 15+ to cast.


Comet of Casandora. Direct Damage. Once cast it cannot be dispelled. The range is 2D6" plus an additional inch for every counter on it. The Damage caused by it is 2D6 strength is 4 hits, but is +1 strength for every counter on it. It comes down on a 4+. If it does not come down place a marker. 12+ to cast. The scaled up version automatically starts with 2 markers on it. Every turn it does not come down an additional 2 markers are put on it. 24+ to cast

Stubborn
• If you have more ranks than the opponent you are Stubborn, regardless of which side you are attacked on. So if you are attacked on all four sides, but the total number of ranks you have is larger than those of any of the 4 units attacking you, you are still stubborn.

Parry
• The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat against infantry units to the front only. <<<< Note the bit I changed was that it is rumoured to be against infantry only.

Short bows have 18" range.

Regeneration:
Also, it seems that you will take regeneration saves against each wound suffered after wounds have been multiplied. For example:

If a dwarf lord had the master rune of smiting (1D6 wounds), it hits a hydra and wounds it, the hydra takes its armour save, when it fails the dwarf player rolls the D6 for the wounds. He rolls a 5, this means the hydra needs to take 5 regeneration rolls for those 5 wounds.

Weapons:
Bane Blade: 5 points. Any monster or character that takes an unsaved wound from this weapon perminantly loses 1 attack, to a minimum of 1.
(name). 60 points. Sword. +3 attacks
(name). 70 points. Sword. +3 strength. It does not count as a great weapon.

Enchanted Items:
Watch Tower: 100pts. Enchanted item. It is a actual watch tower that must be constructed by the player using it. If the player does not have an adequate Tower or Building the item may not be used. After deploying terrain and armies the Player may activate the magic item and place the watch tower anywhere in his deployment zone. It counts as a Defended Building.
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