8th edition rumors

[richardbarby]

for once not being really negetive (it wont last long  )

your going to have to work out what armies are now hard and what have gone soft what armies have been hit really hard by new rules what lists/ builds work and what used to work and now does not work so well. i think that side of a do over with the rules will be great. if said 25% max heros comes in no flyers ruining your battle lines no point and click lord going i charge you die unless my dice fall in to a black hole. there will be more bolck/ units fighting other blocks / units

and  i may even buy my own rule book

[grumpy old smurf]

i gotta admit.... im intrigued enuff to consider buying one too......

[Simon]

More reliable rumours
Army construction is moving back to percentages.
Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
Crush attack for larger creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks.
Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
528+ pages. Full colour
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
Copies for Staff available early May
The book is up for advance order from a swedish store. £45.

There will be a "General's" Edition as well as a "Gunner's" Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. "General's Edition" is supported with a white linen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes...


Other rumours (and description of above)

These are all listed in no particular order.

ARMY SELECTION
Army construction is moving back to percentages.

All from Avian (confirmed):
25% max characters (includes mounts)
25% min core
50% max special
25% max rare

Just so I am clear on this, as there has been some misunderstandi ng, you can have a lord level character leading a small army if you want to (within the points), you don't have to take a hero as you do currently.
Allied forces will not get a % allocation. However, rules for using allied forced (i.e. an updated allied forces chart) are in the rulebook.
Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
There *may* be something to prevent spamming...
There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.


MOVEMENT

Standard Movement
Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform).
(edit: It seems I am very close with this, the champion one is only by process of deduction. Still awaiting further confirmation on all this)

Standard Bearer = Re-roll one of the charging dice
Musician = +1" Charge bonus
Champion = One free reform

(edit: As it has caused some confusion, these are all only additions to what all the command models currently do)

Charging.
An added 'bonus' of getting an 'extra' +D6 or +D3 inches of movement to your Movement range (presumably the D6 or D3 decided by the category of warrior; infantry/cavalry/ogre sized).
Edit; rumoured to be:

M1-M6 (and not flying) = Basic M value + D6
M7+ (and not flying) = Basic M value + 3D6 (choose the 2 highest)

+1CR for charging. -Avian (confirmed)


Marching.
As normal


Heavy cavalry - Avian says this is possibly speculation
- Rumoured to be something like this:
All infantry and cavalry models (i.e. smaller than ogre sized) with a passive non-magical save of 3+ or better cannot march move. I.e. heavy armour and shield would allow you to march, as the +1 HW & shield is only in combat.

Brettonians and Dwarfs will be exempt



MAGIC

NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories

Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from anonymous sources:
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount if dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the sum as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (not sure if this is 100% correct yet).


Magic users then add their magic level to the score rolled. This could be 1 PD for lvl 1/2 and 2 PD for lvl 3/4).


Every magic user has access to the pool.
Giving irresistible force a downside (confirmed)

There may be some sort of irresistible force ‘incident’ table, this may be an extension of the miscast table.

Roll of 1 on the chart: This has been confirmed as being even worse than number 4… Which (pure speculation) may involve every model in the unit taking a hit, this was something I actually heard a while back, but it could be worse than this.

Roll of 4: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for something (could be the centre model, meaning S5 for the rest?).

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (confirmed) - Avian

Lore of Fire
Some spells will scale up. One Example is Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.
Lore of Metal
One spell from the Lore of Metal: Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.
Lore of Shadows
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).

Double 6 = a miscast (confirmed)
Making miscasts much more devastating.
Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell.
Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (confirmed)
If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts -Avian (confirmed)
Everybody can cast with a maximum of 6 dice -Avian (confirmed)


And the other rumours:
Each spell can be cast once per magic phase, regardless of how many casters there are. - Avian says this is possibly speculation
All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. – Avian. This *may* be something like; for every magic user throw D6, on a 6 a further power dice is added. Though someone else has discredited this.
Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)
Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells)
A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters.

SHOOTING

Armour Save Modifiers
As it happens to be the same rumour; fewer armour save modifiers. - Harry. Avian has said this may or may not be the case


Bows fire in 2 ranks as standard.
Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows fire in two ranks. Units armed with handguns, crossbows, anything else fire in 1 rank - Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now.
Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.


War Machines
Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now


COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Fighting in 2 ranks
Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model (with whatever weapon they have). - Avian/Harry
Special rules apply as normal.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
This is the same regardless of which side they are attacked on
Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with their normal number of attacks from the second rank.

Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people
Casualties are strictly removed from the back. [confirmed].


Horde
10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian


Stubborn
If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry


Unit Strength
Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian



Rank bonuses
Unchanged. (edit) GW handout supposedly saying unlimited! (- Avian says this is possibly speculation)


One Save to ruin them all!
Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!


Monstrous Creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).


Crush them!
Additional stomp/crush attacks for big infantry (ogres, trolls, etc) to represent them trampling lesser races underfoot. Bigger bonus for large creatures like giants. These are not impact hits. (edit: these could be overrun hits)


Armour Save Modifiers
Fewer armour save modifiers - Avian has said this may or may not be the case


Striking in Initiative order
Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).


Chariots
S7 autokill is gone. - Avian (confirmed)



WEAPONS

Combat Weapons
Great weapons Always strike last (this overrides any army book rules).


Missile Weapons
Longbows Same. See shooting above for more rules


PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES

Panic
If a large unit panics, ie. 30 Orcs, they panic all smaller units within 18 inches. But if your general is withing 12 inches you are immune to panic.. Take this with a lot of salt.- Avian says this is possibly speculation(Avian)

Fear and Terror
Fear / Terror reduces the combat effectiveness of your unit if you fail the test, but give no CR bonus in and of itself. - Avian (confirmed)
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).

Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Always Strike First
Models with great weapons will always strike last, regardless of ASF. There is supposedly a change to the ASF rule to compensate HE a bit, not sure what yet. - Avian has said the ASL trumping ASF is probably right.

MAGIC ITEMS

Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.


OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS
Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.

15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required units to capture objectives (not just core). Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.

A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles


Terrain
Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult.
D6+4 compulsory terrain.
Terrain will not just affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
The rulebook includes terrain rules for all the GW products.
Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...). This appears to be D6 for every model, on a 1 a model is lost. This is only the tip of the iceberg…
Finding a magic item in the woods.
Something to do with a unit charging out of a cursed forest causing fear. - Avian says this is possibly speculation
Fighting in woods is -1 CR for ranked infantry and +1 CR for skirmishers. Might be worse for cavalry. - Avian

[Ry.S]

Hmm its going to be different I still don't want some of the rumors to be true and I see alternatives to some of them that would make sense.

[richardbarby]

One Save to ruin them all!
Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!
 

THAT RULE IS UTTER CRAP SUCH A BIG PILE IT CAN BE SEEN FROM SPACE BY A BLIND PERSON LOOKING THW WRONG WAY

[grumpy old smurf]

works ok for 40gay.... oh wait.... fantarsy is being dumbed down to match.......

[richardbarby]

did it work for 40k? is it any better that 3-4 years ago editions

[juiced]

its faster....less complicated... ....you get to choose your best save.

[Glenn Patel]

Stacked saves are a bit silly, really. Nestling a squishy 3 wounds under an armour save, a ward save AND regeneration has been overkill for a while, really.

What it does is make characters squishier. Oh, and Chaos Knights of Tzeentch and Bretonnians - but Bretonnians are apparently going to be the only army with marching heavy cavalry, psychology is about to have a reduced impact, and lance formation apparently will be the only way to break ranked infantry head on, so go Bretonnian! (that stubborn rumour).

[Simon]

from the above rumor it seems pretty obvious what GW tries to do..

make the core choices better, another words you need to buy more models to build a better army.

with combat fight in "I" order like 40k, and able to fight in 2 ranks, any troops with high attacks, high toughness, and high "I" will be the ultimate optimal choices..

go warriors of khorne!

One Save to ruin them all!

one save to ruin them all is a good change, stacked saves are stupid.


but my fav changes are:
S7 autokill is gone.
auto break from fear + terror is gone.

[grumpy old smurf]

and at least fantarsy doesnt have instant death. god i hate that shit rule in 40gay.

[Simon]

and at least fantarsy doesnt have instant death. god i hate that shit rule in 40gay.

at least 40k doesn't have anything that does D6 or D3 wounds~

[Xander]

from the above rumor it seems pretty obvious what GW tries to do..

make the core choices better, another words you need to buy more models to build a better army.

with combat fight in "I" order like 40k, and able to fight in 2 ranks, any troops with high attacks, high toughness, and high "I" will be the ultimate optimal choices..

go warriors of khorne!

and just dont give em shields so they can still march! i'm looking forward to this . . .

KB dependant on model size is interesting - the manticore will be scary.

and helllcannons will be better - everything touching the template is hit, cause miscasts when it rampages is nastier maybe, etc.

and as you said no S7 autokill
 
So do you think WOC might jump up a tier or two?

[Gratnuk Ironfist]

Well that be a bit silly, without a S7 autokill chariots are going to be a pain in the neck, and I reckon we should keep the multiple saves a)becuase it makes sense b) the 40gay players would have one more thing to whinge about 

[richardbarby]

the no s7 auto kill does make tomb kings as dirty as the average mind of a wargamer

[grumpy old smurf]

hahahahahahaha .... i hope it goes to one save now.... hehehehehehehe he.... your game is getting dumbed down! welcome to 40gay!

[richardbarby]

can we boycot the dumbing down rules mixing 7th with 8th

[Carl]

Aside from a few games in 7th and a couple in 6th, I've not had much experience with WHFB.

However, I do have an observation. Considering that the armies' points have steadily increased over the years, wouldn't it make sense to have simpler rules so that the game does not take forever?

It seems a lot of people equate rule complexity with tactical acumen or that the more complex the rules the better gamer it makes you.

Sure, Warhammer ain't too complicated yet there are still plenty of rules' issues that crop up.

Anything that goes towards making a gaming system smoother and quicker to play is a good idea.

For the record, I love 5th Ed 40K. Yes, I know, that makes me a 12 year old retarded moron (or so some gaming snobs would believe). Actually, I'm a 37 year old professional man with a Degree.

Go figure.

[grumpy old smurf]

ha! im 38 with a degree and a post grad diploma! beat ya! and i adore 40gay 5th ed ruleset. i feel like im playing fow in sci fi 28 mil scale! cant wait for fantarsy rules.... im itching to play again.

[Carl]

You win!

You're older 'n grumpier than me!

[Derick]

I'm 63 

[wouster7]

I'm 63 

You're just saying that cos you want sympathy. I always thought you were 34 cos 'Comp Faery' looked older...

erm... I'm 63 too.

[juiced]

one save to rule them all
one save to bind them
one save in gaming lore, and together two systems unite them.

that has to be the geekiest thing i've done all week

[grumpy old smurf]

thats not bad bro..... true, its geeky but hey! one save indeed.....

[Simon]

NEWS:

Skirmishers
Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -Avian and Kah-thurak - Note. The gap between them may actually be the same size as the base width.

X = Model
O = 1" Gap between

X O X O X O X O X
O O O O O O O O O
X O X O X O X O X

Still rank up in combat. May or may not have 360 Line of sight.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear.

Fear and Terror
When you charge a Fear or Terror causer you take the Fear/Terror test not before you charge, but at the start of the combat phase. - Avian

If you fail the Fear/Terror test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well.

Terror comes with a chance to run away.

[Fujin]

the no s7 auto kill does make tomb kings as dirty as the average mind of a wargamer

Black Coach combined with potential new magic rules for generating insane amounts of power dice. Drool...

[wouster7]

Just got into the hype and found out that HE maybe filthied up to DE standards. ASF maybe initatiive order with a great weapon but gives you a reroll if you miss in combat. Always step up rule makes spears fight in 4 ranks may mean I'm back onto some major gouda in the future. With fear and terror causing becoming puny there might be a shake up in the tier one catergory.

This may give credence to all those running for their mums whenever a HE army is fielded

[Fujin]

Always step up rule makes spears fight in 4 ranks may mean I'm back onto some major gouda in the future.

Great to see someone man up and admit to their current use of filthy cheese when it comes to High Elves.

[wouster7]

@Fuj

As long as you don't run for ya mum, I'll man up Dave

I'm keen to grudge Reid as well for TS3. Another game against him before 8th ed hits would be kewl!

[Fujin]

Is he entered?