Equinox 2010 - Tournament Thread- updated list of players

[Josh]

In a normal tournament, tiers are always ranked according to what you would likely be allowed to take in an army to that event. There's no point in thinking to oneself 'hmm, Bretts can take the RAF, that means they're at least as hard as demons', as you'd never get the RAF into a normal tournament.
As you say though, there are armies/builds that rely on certain capped areas (such as spam raise vamps). I agree that rankings of armies will change in different events, but I personally think that the top tier armies are so far ahead of the rest of the pack that while they may shuffle, I would never believe Dwarfs deserve to be top 6 for example. For my money the big 3 stay where they are followed by the smaller big 3 (which shuffle a little).

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this though.

[Fujin]

Here's my take (with a couple of case study army examples):

- I don't see the comp differentials expressed as a VP bonus having a big impact in the ratios they are currently operating at. Assuming I'm tier one and I play an average of maybe tier 7 (there being a LOT of tiers - one for each army) I probably giving up around 200VPs. That sounds like a lot but really - based on what I feel can be taken in a high tier list - I'm confident that can be made up without too much stress.
- I see points denial as being a key element of this particular event
- I think that, while operating within the hard caps, everyone will be taking their lists to the limit. If you haven't and have decided to turn up and play Fluffyhammer, then you've misinterpreted the nature of the event.

And I don't have much of an issue with any of that stuff. I'm very happy to see something different tried and it's only by testing the system will we find out how successful it is (and whether it has met the committee's expectations). This is all based on assumptions of course but I just assumed all the players would look at what they could do, realise comp didn't enter into it (and there was no veto option) and just go nuts.


If I wasn't playing Daemons I be putting them tier one - no hesitations. Not just because they are silly good anyway, but because where the organisers had a chance to put the hurt on Daemons with the restrictions-approach, they didn't. Not enough anyway.

After that I reckon everything gets very hazy very quicky.

I ranked the top armies as Dark Elves, Vampires and Lizardmen but really agonised over how much I wanted High Elves and Warriors to be right up there too because of what they could take and "get away with" (thing you would hope they wouldn't normally be able to take in a standard event because they are so obscene).

I placed Skaven waaay down the list. Skaven are pretty screwed at Equinox - practically anything and everything counts as a warmachine, you won't see an Abomination, and with the magic limit in play the advantages of toys like the Condenser and Warpstone tokens are somewhat compounded (so you can't unleash everything and overwhelm your opponent in single turn. The phase ends up being a couple of Warp Lightnings and an attempt at Scorch.

I rated Wood Elves even lower than the rats.

Coupled with their relative scarcity, ability to deny points and to bring not only serious shooting and warmachines but also enough magic defense to shut down a 9PD phase, I ranked Dwarfs higher than I normally would. They aren't uber but they're doing ok (they weren't top 6 but they got close).

I don't think we'll see the kind of Empire army that could be taken (the ETC-esque list) but the fact that you can take it means I ranked them with respect. Again - lots of shooting and magic defense could result in tiers for some opponents. If I wasn't so lazy I would have hunted around to borrow some more Empire figures and taken an ETC list (all Handgunners, Archer detachments, War Altar, Flagellents and magic).


Again, I really like that something different is being trialled here and of course it might just be that the armies come out tiered as they normally are anyway. I just found that my thinking on it was adjusted by the comp system and army list restrictions.

[Vaul]

I actually agree dave, the only (small) negative thing I encountered were comments from players pack designers that their expectations were for a non cheesy, normal tournament.  But that's just small talk.  It's a pretty decent players pack and I wouldn't want to miss out on an opportunity to play at the event ever, it should be fun.

[Fujin]

Yep - should definitely be fun.

[Josh]

Good calls Dave. I agree particularly about the Empire. If someone thought hard enough (not really) a really nasty list would fit in the comp restrictions. I bumped them up too. I still don't know regarding the Skaven. You lose a couple of toys, but Doomwheel/furnace/WLC/9PD + 1,000,000 rats is still an army.

I assume you're thinking the Gateway build for warriors? Having only 8PD to play with I feel makes the build a bit less effective. 5DD and 2 scrolls should shut down all magic for 2-3 turns (assuming any of it is actually cast!).

Second other thoughts... really looking forward to the event.

[Fujin]

Good calls Dave. I agree particularly about the Empire. If someone thought hard enough (not really) a really nasty list would fit in the comp restrictions. I bumped them up too. I still don't know regarding the Skaven. You lose a couple of toys, but Doomwheel/furnace/WLC/9PD + 1,000,000 rats is still an army.

I assume you're thinking the Gateway build for warriors? Having only 8PD to play with I feel makes the build a bit less effective. 5DD and 2 scrolls should shut down all magic for 2-3 turns (assuming any of it is actually cast!).

Second other thoughts... really looking forward to the event.

Mate I was this close to taking that dirty Empire build. Shudder - total filth. Eats Daemons, TKs and Vampires for breakfast. Then everything else for seconds. Awful.

I was actually thinking a Dragon for WoC. A highly mobile Marauder Horse/double Knight/Dragon and not much else list with some mounted Sorcerers for spam zappy death. Pinning that lot down and getting some points would be a royal pain in the ass and falling into the likely tier 5-6 position (or higher) means you are a little more relaxed about having to just barrel straight into the guts of the enemy. Gateway is still good (especially with Puppet etc which everyone should be taking) but you're right about the dispelling to a point.

Makes me wish I'd taken at least one scroll... playing you is going to be a hair-raising experience

[Josh]

Got my first game in with the WoC today. Those fellas are tough as nails. I've also had a preliminary look through the submitted army lists and would like to congratulate everyone. Far less filth than I thought there would be. Unfortunately my grudged opponent has taken almost exactly what I would have and I think has one of the toughest lists. D'oh!

Phil has confirmed that once we've checked all the lists for legality ALL lists will be made available to view/weep over.

The only illegal list I've seen so far is Fuj's... YOU SUCK!!!

[Fujin]

Oops! What did I screw up?

[nik_]

Hey, Fujin is getting a lot of stick lately, let's all remember what a nice guy he is... plus there are at least 3 lists that break the hardcaps (after a brief glance)
@Fujin - too many shooters! (Horrors...)

[Fujin]

Wow... that really got by me! Ok, back the drawing board!

Ha! So I need to drop 4 Horrors... lol. Way to break a hard cap

[Fujin]

Fixed. Must admit I never thought to check the shooting cap as I wasn't taking any Flamers!

That's quite a catch really. I wonder if the judges also picked this one up with armies like Dark Elves who can take a bunch of shooting + one Sorceress who has the potential to choose Lore of Metal, potentially take the first spell and potentially successfully cast it at a 0+ save model causing a str7 ranged hit.


Anyways... I dropped some Horrors for some more Plaguebearers and assumed the ranged str5+ caveats applied to the GUO and Banner.

[nik_]

Shooting cap excludes characters - the spells thing is soley there to catch horrors IIRC

[Fujin]

Oh for goodness sakes...

One day I'll learn to read. Good thing I'm a teacher with an eye for detail.


EDIT - *spoken through gritted teeth* Make that 30 Horrors and 18 Plaguebearers then...

[Big D]

And students throughout the Takapuna region end up working at Maccas instead of going to uni because Fuj can't do details.

Way to ruin lives and crush dreams Dave 

[that guy the Master]

And students throughout the Takapuna region end up working at Maccas instead of going to uni because Fuj can't do details.

Way to ruin lives and crush dreams Dave 

More likely end up temping for Allied Workforce Big D 

[omegakai]

And students throughout the Takapuna region end up working at Maccas instead of going to uni because Fuj can't do details.

Way to ruin lives and crush dreams Dave 

More likely end up temping for Allied Workforce Big D 

thats were i get all my temps from.

[that guy the Master]

Hey, Fujin is getting a lot of stick lately, let's all remember what a nice guy he is... plus there are at least 3 lists that break the hardcaps (after a brief glance)
@Fujin - too many shooters! (Horrors...)

But he isn't the only one with too many shooters is he Mr Humble pie.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Big D]

And students throughout the Takapuna region end up working at Maccas instead of going to uni because Fuj can't do details.

Way to ruin lives and crush dreams Dave 

More likely end up temping for Allied Workforce Big D 

thats were i get all my temps from.

Thats because all the guys that worked for me threatened to quit if I sent them to your factory more than once.

[wouster7]

Hey Guys,

Army lists for both 40k and WFB were due last Friday. I still haven't received all the Army lists yet. Reminders have been sent and we have decided to give an extension till 9pm tonight for all list submissions and resubmits. With all the resubmits that have been requested (simple addition errors etc) The committee and myself have been swamped. If you have received a resubmit don't worry no penalties will be incurred if sent back by tonight. Please take the time to check your list carefully and at least 2 or 3 times. The committee have been very generous and patient so far, I don't expect that to continue for very much longer.
Any and all lists received after tonights deadline will unfortunately incur a penalty of 5 tournament pts per day until resolved. 40k lists not received after tonight will incur very harsh penalties since this has delayed me sending lists to the comp judges and yes they actually have other things to do apart from just marking lists.

Phil.

[that guy the Master]

Hey, Fujin is getting a lot of stick lately, let's all remember what a nice guy he is... plus there are at least 3 lists that break the hardcaps (after a brief glance)
@Fujin - too many shooters! (Horrors...)

But he isn't the only one with too many shooters is he Mr Humble pie.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

It looks like I'm Mr Humble Pie 
Nick is truley Capt Soft and as pure as driven snow 

[Philfy]

So Lonely Dave & THAT Guy will be putting on red faces for the event then?   

[that guy the Master]

So Lonely Dave & THAT Guy will be putting on red faces for the event then?   

No I was right first time with my list (as far as I know). My mistake was that I couldn't read Nicks' list and couldn't wait to wind him up about a perceived error.

Dave being the noisiest should get a decent amount of ribbing, especially as it was SOOO obvious 
But there were plenty of others who had made mistakes. The whole hard cap pack was quite long, and is a new thing for people who haven't been playing since 2005.

[Philfy]

Dave being the noisiest should get a decent amount of ribbing, especially as it was SOOO obvious 

  You gotta watch those Dave's...  every member of Jidave is a lil dodgy 

The whole hard cap pack was quite long, and is a new thing for people who haven't been playing since 2005.

  True enough there were one or two things that could catch you out...  will be interesting to see how well people "keep count" in regards to their PD/DD caps each turn as well...  esp given what looks to be a fair number of magic oriented lists?

[nik_]

True enough there were one or two things that could catch you out...  will be interesting to see how well people "keep count" in regards to their PD/DD caps each turn as well...  esp given what looks to be a fair number of magic oriented lists?

I've found that using the lid of my dice container as a store for used dice is pretty effective. Each time you cast a spell, put the powerdice in there. For each bound, add some more dice. I'd encourage all players to do something like this themselves, and ask/encourage/force their opponents to do something similar in order to avoid any unpleasantness .

[wouster7]

Hey Guys,

Some news.

1. The grace period for late lists has expired. We gave everyone fair warning and unfortunately any resubmits and yes lists received now will have late penalties deducted from their tournament total. Thank you to all the people who made it easy by their prompt and double checked lists.

2. The Skaven FAQ has just been released from GW and will be used for Equinox

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1000262a_FAQ_Skaven_Mar2010.pdf (thanks Philfy)

3. I'm going to pick up the over $1800 worth of prizes and trophies today and really hope my cars big enough. Christmas is coming to you all guys : )
Thanks for the gaming community for supporting the tournament and ensuring we'll have a repeat for next year.


Phil.

[pete dunn]

Phil,

Given that the lists are now in - or if they are not people are accumulating penalty points - can you please post a list of participants and what army is being used.

Regards

Pete

[wouster7]

Here is the break down of Armies attending from lists received so far.

Daemons         6
WoC               5
DE                  4
Skaven            4
LM                  4
VC                  3
Brets               2
WE                 2
Dwarfs            2
EMP                2
CD                  2
OK                  1
HE                  1
O&G                1
TK                  1

Once all lists have been compiled they will be released Monday next week in full.

[Menolly]

Not sure if there was already one, but I've just made an event thing for Equinox on Facebook if you are on there. I've posted about the event in the Cityguard group too.

(added) Hmm, searched and didn't find one, made one... and then found it on the CityGuard page... weird.

[nik_]

Just for interests sake, over a quarter of the lists submitted were late, had incorrect math, were illegal in general, or broke the general or army specific hardcaps.

[Philfy]

Just for interests sake, over a quarter of the lists submitted were late, had incorrect math, were illegal in general, or broke the general or army specific hardcaps.

Woohoo  that must give about 3/4 of the field a head-start in points then  (Gawd knows "I" certainly need it!!!)