Vaul's full FoB coverage - pictures, video slideshow battle reports, analysis

[Vaul]

Here it is - my Major coverage thread of the tournament, with youtube links.  We'll start with the battle reports:

Slideshow videos with commentary on various armies displayed for the tournament:

p1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8TORW-34nQ
p2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adBbiPXWTUQ

Vaul vs Ryan Simister (game #1) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhyom92W4j8

Vaul vs James Cammel (game #2) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfwFMoqCiSQ

Vaul vs Ken Hay (game #3) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Py5T1xniI

An interlude concerning the 40k Apocalypse game = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIW1iyTqQZU

Vaul vs Mark McCall = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q3Bd7daYhk

Vaul vs Bill Shera = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e_Tic9RmDE

Vaul vs Glen Patel = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmMCx2J_ADI

Furthermore, a clip in which I discuss and analyse my tournament standing = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyABnqYf1NQ

Some snapshots of 7 out of 8 of the armies on display for best presentation, please let me know if you would like larger versions or copies of any of the other photos you see in my slideshow videos:

Glen T:



Harry D:



Jack D:



Josh W:



Phil C:



Bryan O:



Simon K



Finally, if you managed to get through that, feel free to offer your feedback on the following.

During my game against Mark McCall, we had got off to a bit of an awkward start as the game had been delayed by his concern that he'd already played on our table (something quite legitimate), and allegedly because of my photography (I deny this - my shots never take up more than a few minutes over the course of a game).  We also played slowly, due to his careful style and my inexperience against bretonnians.  Perhaps his patience was wearing thin, but during a crucial turn I moved my eagle in front of his knights to redirect, and then went back to move some of my dragon princes.  I looked back at the eagle before proceeding to the next phase and adjusted the positioning of it in order to co-ordinate with the final decision I had made about where my cavalry would be.

Mark didn't like this at all, and insisted that after I had moved my eagle there was no going back, even though I hadn't finished my movement phase and moved on.  I explained that everyone i've played before is ok with this, and if he really had a problem we could see the TO about it.  I was told to my face that the repositioning would be allowed but it was clearly unsporting. 

Later on when it was his turn, he completely forgot to move a unit of knights errant, leaving me with a charging opportunity, and only realised it late in his magic phase.  He asked if we could go back.  I told him that despite the sequence of gameplay now being interrupted, I was fine for him to go back and move it. 

Poor Mark, he was a great guy and we both ended up giving each other 4/4 for sports even though our nerves were severely frazzled, and our slow game had to be cut short.  Can anyone please comment as to whether there is any convention regarding when it is appropriate to go back and adjust your movement decisions?

-Vaul

[Lezle]

Gidday,

Regarding the last bit:

Everyone make mistakes. We all know this. I'm fairly relax'd about that sort of thing; however sometimes to be the better sport you have to realize that you made a mistake and suck it up: you forgot to move - your problem. Be the better man and take it on the chin - especially in a tourney!

It isn't chess. Once your hand leaves the piece it is not final, not untill the end of the phase is how I've always played it.

I don't have a problem with people forgetting, I get hacked off with people not practicing what they preach as your example shows.

Hope that helps.

Lezle

[Ry.S]

If you are going to move something a few times just be clear with the guy on the other side of the table and mark where it was with dice.

Other than that not much I can say.

[Xander]

Yeah, at the tourney, as long as it's in the same phase it's fine. And if I've moved the unit a bit and forgot to mark where it was, I'll ask if the opponent is happy with it's final placement. Afterwards it's too late. Although I did forget a charging unit's fear test, so in the combat phase when I remembered it I rolled the fear check, which they failed, so moved the unit back, to it's original position, so it wouldn't swing the combat.

[PaW]

I have met a few who are picky about once you move it , you can't move it again.
Personally i don't have a problem with it, as long as its one phase. Actually i don't care if someone wants to move something in another phase as long as its there turn. (As long as you know Preceding factors wouldn't of changed the tatical move e.g. a unit being shot to bits)
Sometimes its better to clear things up at the beginning, though its a pain doing it every game.
My general thing i clear up is about hills, Some people treat the crest of a hill as fully on top and just general terrain factors.

I mean how often have you forgotten a magic phase, gone straight to shooting (like 5th ed? ) usually players let me go back and do my magic phase. Or forgotten a blatantly set up charge on something, But forgot to do it because your mind was else where on the board (i have had a few which don't let me charge because im at the movement phase, Things like that start to annoy the hell out of me, Its not like it changes a damn thing!, fair enough if i was in the magic phase that may change things )

[Josh]

The way I usually play in a tight tournament game is if a dice has been rolled in the next phase, you can't go back...
For forgotten events that have to occur in order in a specific phase, i.e. guess range weapons first, tough luck I'm afraid.
I make exceptions for blatant missed charges and the like.

However, if someone is pushy about not moving a unit when I've taken my hand off it... they can show me that rule in BRB and then I'll continue to do whatever I want. Thankfully I've yet to meet someone that unreasonable.

[Simon]

well, I usually have no problem.

I even let a player move his eagle AFTER his shooting phase, but later on he refused to let me shoot with my banshee..  did get a little bit annoy

[Fujin]

In a friendly game anything goes if you're both relaxed enough to let things slide.

I feel like I'm going a bit against the tide with this but when I play a tournament game I make it clear to my opponent that no time-travelling is allowed at all - either by him/her or by myself. Forgot to move a unit? Silly you. Skipped an entire phase of the game? Get your head checked. I've done it before in a tournament game and my opponent has offered to allow me to go back and correct my errors and I have declined the offer.

You can't stop making silly mistakes if you are constantly allowed to make silly mistakes. It's called forming bad habits and not thinking carefully enough about what you should be focusing on.

[Glenn Patel]

Eh... I'd go with Fuj, but I've won enough "worst sport" awards at WHFB tournaments to last me for a lifetime (one :p ).

[that guy Antony]

If your going to be anal about stuff like that then good for you.

It's still anal though

[Vaul]

Eh... I'd go with Fuj, but I've won enough "worst sport" awards at WHFB tournaments to last me for a lifetime (one :p ).

Vaul: Oh hey glen, my eagle forgot to charge your hobgoblin bolt thrower, mind if I do that even though we are now at the close combat phase?
Glen: HAHA! Good thing my coke can was in the way of you even seeing him over on my side of the table next to my cluttered casualty models.  How about waiting until your next turn to charge?

Priceless

[Fujin]

If your going to be anal about stuff like that then good for you.

It's still anal though

I'm so glad you approve. Guess I expect my opponents to have a sound grasp of the basic mechanics of the game and phases of play. As said previously - friendly games; not a problem.

I don't see tournament play as an(other) opportunity to bring by "B game". I'd rather win because I'm playing a better game than my opponent tactically, not because I'm relying on them to remind me I forgot the <insert relevant phase of the game here> phase or overlooked a crucial charge/movement due to a "senior moment" (or indeed a Coke can... that is pretty hilarious).

[Vaul]

Dave I agree, and I think it is always ok to go back and do something that should have been done earlier, so long as it doesn't interfere with the relay of decision making.  For example, it is obviously not acceptable to reposition a unit that you have deployed after you see an opponent put something down in response, while it should be perfectly acceptable to go back and declare a charge that you should have done in your movement phase, even though you just rolled a spell up in the magic phase - provided that the spell was totally irrelevant to whether you would have charged.  That's about the limit to it though, and maybe only in friendly games - in a tournament game you should be careful.  Stuff like that begins to get more sticky and subjective the further down the timeline you get, so it pays to be dilligent.

I think also for most people it depends whether you are losing or not.  Mark was really sweating about being directed by my eagles, and while my magic and unit positioning had him under real pressure - I would have been looking for any way out I could get had I been in his shoes.  With glen it was easy, I just charged in the following turn anyway and he had nothing critical to shoot at in the meantime

[Glenn Patel]

Hey, that was NOT my coke can!

Also, I try to tailor my responses to the player at hand; against you, I'd say you'd be disappointed if I didn't pin you down to the letter of the law.

(besides, surely it makes that big win all the sweeter... )

[that guy Antony]

I'm so glad you approve. Guess I expect my opponents to have a sound grasp of the basic mechanics of the game and phases of play. As said previously - friendly games; not a problem.

Patronising as well as anal.

I don't care whether its a tourney game or not. If my opponant has forgotten his magic phase I'll remind him. as far as I'm concerned they are all freindly games. I certainly don't play any differently if I'm playing one game in a weekend or six.

[richardbarby]

it is often a friendly smiteing when i play you ant

[NeckFace]

Glenn's coat was a pretty mighty distraction mmmmm fuzzy

[Josh]

It's all well and good to refuse any go-backs, but you have to be careful it's done in a way that doesn't irritate your opponent into knocking you sports score about. It's probably one of those things that needs to be discussed before the game starts.

By the way... great reports Luke. I've watched half of them. One thing that surprised me a bit was that you didn't seem to play very aggressive (with your combat units). I think that may have helped you get bigger wins in some of your games.

[Fodderboy]

On my last game of the tourney we both had things that we forgot to move, but as we'd moved on to the next phase, we both sucked it up.

I suppose it also depends on how critical the move is, too. If your opponent is forgetting something that lets you totally abuse them, or if you forget something that will swing things radically in your favour, go-backs are harder to offer up.

Friendly games are great, but I do need to tighten up my playing.

[Vaul]

It's all well and good to refuse any go-backs, but you have to be careful it's done in a way that doesn't irritate your opponent into knocking you sports score about. It's probably one of those things that needs to be discussed before the game starts.

By the way... great reports Luke. I've watched half of them. One thing that surprised me a bit was that you didn't seem to play very aggressive (with your combat units). I think that may have helped you get bigger wins in some of your games.

For the most part you are absolutely correct.  My army really has the drawback of needing to be conservative in order to not jeapardise (sp?) the mages as they have few places to hide.  For that reason the awesome white lion unit is slow to see combat.  I've already drawn up a new list which will see to issues like this.  When I can get a lot of money together you will start to see the new and improved vaul+high elves combo on the field, so be warned.