My first Fantasy list. (fully expected to be ripped to shreds)

[Big D]

Hey guys, below for your comedic relief is my first Vampire Counts list. The bulk of this list is made up from models I already own so there may be the odd strange unit choice in there.
Bear in mind I am also a complete newb when it comes to Fantasy, I have no real idea on what pushes the comp buttons in a VC list and only a rudimentary understanding of how the game is actually played, with absolutely no idea on the subtleties and nuances of the game.

2250 Vampires List

Heroes:
Vampire Lord, Night Shroud, Biting Blade, Aura of Dark Majesty, Walking Death - 305
Vampire - Helm of Commandment, Spectral Form - 180
Wight King BSB - Barded Steed, Lance, Banner of the Barrows - 177

Core:
20 Skeletons, full command, Banner of the Dead Legion - 235
20 Skeletons, full command, spears - 230
30 Zombies, musician & standard - 132
5 Bat Swarms - 175
Corpse Cart - 75

Special:
6 Fell Bats - 120
5 Black Knights, full command and barding - 180

Rare:
Black Coach - 200
4 Cairn Wraiths w/Banshee - 225

Total: 2234

Leave me about 15 points to play with somewhere if I feel like it.

Have at it boys, rip away 

[Vaul]

welcome to warhammer fantasy, thanks for posting your list.  You'll find that your character setups could be a little more efficient, for example if your vampire lord was to have the helm instead of the lower level vampire, that way you can pass on higher weaponskill.  But minor details aside, there is nothing especially wrong with your list and you should get stuck into playing some of the awesomely sporting guys at the club asap.  Playing games with a list you intuitively wrote and then deciding what is working for you is generally a better way to go than letting the internet dictate what you play with.  But you already know that!

Other people will probably say that 5 Bat Swarms are too many and you won't want spears on your skeletons etc, but it's not a huge deal.

[Mirage.]

Wow now thats some fluffy vamps

[Simon]

I really don't know how to rip that list to shreds.

I doubt your list can last more than 3 turns against Vaul's high elf or Rion savage orc, in fact any magic heavy armies can walk over your list.


anyway, instead of trash talking, here are my thoughts:

1. there are 2 ways to build a VC army, a combat VC or a magic VC. with 5PDs and 1 bound, your magic phase can be easily containable. meanwhile the setup on your vampires mean they are not suitable for combat either, so basically both of your characters are useless.

2. with 4 DD and no scrolls, u r asking to get your army magically annihilated.

3. giving your wight king a magic banner means he can't take magic items, why not give your black knights the magic banner, so your wight king can take some magic item instead?

4. give both of your skeleton units banner, and drop the zombie banner. (it is very unlikely your zombie can ever win combat)

5. unless u r taking a magic heavy army, otherwise why bother with the black coach? u won't be able to boost up your black coach with just 5 PDs.

6. give your Corpse Cart B fire.

[Big D]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The Lord doesn't have the helm because it only works if the Vampire isn't in combat, and you want the Lord in combat if at all possible. Having it on the ethereal vamp still allows me to give a unit WS 6 without having to sacrifice the Lords killy goodness.

Looking again, I may have gone OTT on keeping the magic down, so i may need to find some points to slide a Necro onto the Corpse Cart, maybe by dropping some bat swarms

[Simon]

The Lord doesn't have the helm because it only works if the Vampire isn't in combat, and you want the Lord in combat if at all possible. Having it on the ethereal vamp still allows me to give a unit WS 6 without having to sacrifice the Lords killy goodness.

with T5, 3 wounds and 6+ save, i REALLY don't think it is a good idea to throw your naked lord into combat.
also, if you pass WS 7 to your unit instead of 6, enemies with WS 3 require 5+ to hit you instead of 4+.

[omegakai]

And like Simon said your list wont stand up to heavy magic lists, like his super power dice daemons army.

I think vaul has hit the money by suggesting playing with “what works for you”.
The greatest thing about warhammer is the flexibility  and customization of a list.
Youll have droves of people telling you to take one of these over one of those or that  two of those are better then one of these and so on, and while they may have valid points its all about how you feel when playing it.

Playing with a list that your comfortable with will work for you far better then forcing your self to take a list you have no confidence in playing.

I wish you the best of luck, and hope you have some fantastic games that you really enjoy.
Finally if you want a game and our out west Auckland give me a bell, I have a variety of armies you may what to fight.


See you on the battlefield.

[Nicholas]

Vampire - Helm of Commandment, Spectral Form - 180

A vampire with Spectral Form cannot take magic items.

Looking again, I may have gone OTT on keeping the magic down, so i may need to find some points to slide a Necro onto the Corpse Cart, maybe by dropping some bat swarms

If you need points, dropping the black coach is probably a better idea. Without a enough power dice for it to eat, it's the same as any chariot except it costs 200 points instead of 100.

[Simon]

Youll have droves of people telling you to take one of these over one of those or that  two of those are better then one of these and so on, and while they may have valid points its all about how you feel when playing it.

above are suggestions and my thought, I didn't "tell" him what he should take.
as he mentioned above, he is completely new to fantasy, how can u expect a new player to be able to build a good list in his first attempt??
instead of using a list that would get pwned every game, I think he will have more fun using a list that he can actually do/kill something with.

Finally if you want a game and our out west Auckland give me a bell, I have a variety of armies you may what to fight.

translated in english:

"bring your toy knife army list out west Auckland so i can beat the crap out of you, I have lascannon, assault cannon, power fist you may want to fight, I will make sure I abuse your army so bad, u will think twice before playing fantasy again."

[omegakai]

Youll have droves of people telling you to take one of these over one of those or that  two of those are better then one of these and so on, and while they may have valid points its all about how you feel when playing it.

above are suggestions and my thought, I didn't "tell" him what he should take.
as he mentioned above, he is completely new to fantasy, how can u expect a new player to be able to build a good list in his first attempt??
instead of using a list that would get pwned every games, I think he will have more fun using a list that he can actually do/kill something with.

Finally if you want a game and our out west Auckland give me a bell, I have a variety of armies you may what to fight.

translated in english:

"bring your toy knife army list out west Auckland so i can beat the crap out of you, I have lascannon, assault cannon, power fist you may want to fight, I will make sure I abuse your army so bad, u will think twice before playing fantasy again."

Clam down Simon
I was suggesting he plays with units he’s familiar with, and that he has confidence in using.

Believe it or not Simon I actually have soft fluffy armies laying about, to which Im sure bill could testify.

[Glenn Patel]

Simon, any new player will have trouble at first. If he focuses on good list design before he gets generalship down, it could hurt him a LOT in the long run. I say let him find his feet battling people with his own list with maybe a few tweaks (like fixing the illegal bloodline/item combo), and he just steers away from playing the harder players.

Seriously, it's better if he just gets a few games in against equally soft lists and tries to figure out tactics and so on.

JMO.

[Fodderboy]

It's a cool idea to give the spectral vamp the helm, but spectral vamps can't have any magic items.

I'd try to give your lord a ward save. I've had mixed success with the Crown of Stupidity, and have now gone to Walach's Bloody Hauberk. Wristbands of Black Gold/Nightshroud is also a popular combination.

Maybe look at splitting your Fell Bats into two units of 3. That gives you more opportunity to mess with your opponent's movement, and more chances to charge their artillery.

You don't need to dedicate all of your magic dice to try to buff your Black Coach, it starts off pretty cool and just gets better with age. Don't forget that even if your opponent doesn't have casters, they still roll their pool dice to see if you get upgrades.

You don't have a lot of magic defense, so I agree with Simon on the Balefire.

As a fellow VC player, I say have fun with it!

[Big D]

Wow, ok. A few different points to take in there. Ultimately at the moment, I am looking to build an army using models I currently have (Black coach), without having to add too much to it. Having said that, I would like it to be at least semi-competitive, although I will be the main impediment to that at this stage. Really just looking to learn the game, find my feet in a completely different system before I look to building another, more tournament worthy force.

**Majorly annoyed about the spectral vamp thing. I really liked that idea **

[Glenn Patel]

Oh, this is is fairly close to tournament worthy. Tweaking the characters only a little would be sufficient to make for a fairly obnoxious army, really. Vampire Counts are one of the 'big three' army books.

The Black Coach is fine, seriously. It'd be better if you had a bit more magic, and VC magic IS worth it.


Also... do you have more Zombies? Raising Zombies is very useful, so I'd try to keep a *lot* of spare Zombie models on tap.

[omegakai]

Oh, this is is fairly close to tournament worthy. Tweaking the characters only a little would be sufficient to make for a fairly obnoxious army, really. Vampire Counts are one of the 'big three' army books.

The Black Coach is fine, seriously. It'd be better if you had a bit more magic, and VC magic IS worth it.


Also... do you have more Zombies? Raising Zombies is very useful, so I'd try to keep a *lot* of spare Zombie models on tap.

"try"
As i recall you summoned all your models onto the table last time we played.

[Philfy]

Methinks he is showing all you cheese-mongers how to build a list that may not be "as" competitive as it can be, but still will be competitive.

30 Zombies can take a bit to chew through, as would 5 bat swarms.

Yes of course another couple of PD would help, and definitely if you are aiming to throw your Lord into combat then kit him out a bit more that way, particularly for survivability.

Bear in mind that if your Lord dies - then your army usually disappears shortly after...

[Big D]

Ok, based on the recommendation s posted here, I have made a few tweaks. Basically uped the magic a bit and reworked the illegal vamp.

2250 Vampires List

Heroes:
Vampire Lord, Forbidden Lore, Dark Acolyte, Night Shroud, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll - 345
Vampire - Avatar of Death (Great Weapon), Flayed Hauberk- 145
Necromancer - Sceptre of Noirot, Dispel Scroll - 105
Wight King BSB - Barded Steed, Lance, Banner of the Barrows - 177

Core:
20 Skeletons, full command, Banner of the Dead Legion - 235
20 Skeletons, full command, spears, Warbanner - 255
30 Zombies, musician & standard - 132
Corpse Cart w/Balefire- 100

Special:
3 Fell Bats - 60
3 Fell Bats - 60
5 Black Knights, full command and barding, Std of Hellish Vigour - 205

Rare:
Black Coach - 200
4 Cairn Wraiths w/Banshee - 225

Total: 2244


All right, have at it. Have I made the classic n00b mistake? Have I gone to far the other way?



**Edited for Philfys good idea, and again for Warbanner suggestion**

[Vaul]

Your list is pretty tough now.  But I wouldn't concern yourself to much like I said before.  What will happen in your first few games, especially if you play against experienced players, is that they will be decided by deployment and the manouvers of troops in the first couple of turns.  It's good to start out with a list that plays in a fairly straightforwar d fashion, with abilities that you will remember to use correctly.  Good luck with it, anyway.

[Philfy]

Good list.

Sword of Kings on the Vamp Hero though?  Something like a Flayed Hauberk (2+ Save) wielding a Great Weapon might be a better option for the same points.

[Simon]

I think only 1 unit of skeleton can take magic banner, drop the endless nightmare, 20 models = +3 ranks, u won't be able to get the +4 bonus.

otherwise it looks great.

[Nicholas]

There's no limit on the number of skeleton units that can take magic banners. Take Warbanner instead.

[Fodderboy]

A fun combination is Sword of Kings with Beguile.

No KB first time? Roll them all again.

I'd rather go War Banner than Banner of the Endless Nightmare, because it will still give a bonus no matter how many ranks you have.

Aside from that one banner, I really like your list. Now you've got until 730 Saturday morning to get it submitted and painted!
 

[Big D]

Aside from that one banner, I really like your list. Now you've got until 730 Saturday morning to get it submitted and painted!
 

LOL! I'm playing 40k this weekend with my Big Bastardy Zero-comp Bezerker list. After that, I will start my journey into the realm of the square base.

As for getting them painted, I only need 1 Blister of Fellbats, 1 horseman, 2 wraiths and a Corpse Cart and its complete