Q for regular WHFB tournament judges

[Vaul]

I know we just had a comp debate, but I am really quite interested in what the following people:

-Phil Commins
-Tony Vodanovich
-Dave Grant

...have to say about this - which of the 'cheesycon' army lists would actually get vetoed had they been enterred in a real tournament such as NATCON.  Of course everyone else should speak their mind, but i'm very keen to hear judge opinions.  Sure it's subjective, sure, these things aren't well defined.  All i'm asking for is a tentative 'yes' 'no' or 'maybe' on each list.

Antony’s Dwarf List

Rune Lord, Anvil, Great Weapon, Shield, Ro Stone, Ro Furnace, 2 x scrolls - 384 pts
BSB, MRo Gomril, Ro Resistance, Ro Furnace, Ro Cleaving - 165 pts
Master Engineer, brace of pistols, Ro Furnace, Ro Cleaving, Ro Stone, MRo Challenge - 115 pts

10 Quarrellers, shields - 120 pts
10 Thunderers , shields - 150 pts
10 Thunderers , shields - 150 pts
20 Warriors, FC - 205 pts
19 Long beards, FC, Ro Stoicism, Ro Battle - 303 pts

10 Miners, std, mus - 125 pts
Cannon, Engineer, Valient - 125 pts
Grudge Thrower, Engineer, Ro Accuracy, Ro Penetrating - 145 pts

Organ Gun - 120 pts
Gyro Copter - 140 pts

2247 pts

Chris's Vampire Count

vampire lord, 3rd magic level, infinite hatred, red fury, dread knight, sword of might, night shroud, the cursed book, staff of sorcery

vampire, master of the black arts, 2 dispel scrolls

wight king, battle standard bearer, skeletal steed, barding, the drakenhof banner

20 zombies
29 ghouls
40 skeletons, spears, light armour, shields, standard, standard of hellish vigour
corpse cart, balefire
corpse cart, balefire
10 dire wolves

varghulf
black coach

Chris’s Bretonnia List
Lord, Grail vow,lance of the blessed,grail shield,royal pegasus = 288

Paladin (bsb), Grail vow,banner of defence,Virtue of noble Distain,barded warhorse = 145

Paladin,Holy Icon,Enchanted Shield,Barded warhorse,Grail vow,Lance = 149

Damsel, Chalice of Mafluer,Dispel scroll,barded warhorse = 129

Damsel, barded warhorse,dispel Scroll x2 = 134

Knights Errant x8 , full command, Erranty banner = 201
Knights of the Realm x 10, full comand, war banner = 289
Bowmen x 10 braziers = 65
Bowmen x 10 braziers = 65

Pegasus Knights x 5, full command  = 305

Grail Knights x 8, full command, valorous standard = 384
Trebuchet = 90                                                   
Total = 2244

Dave’s Lizardmen List

Slann: Focussed Rumination, Belcalming Cogitation, BSB, War Banner, Bane Head, Plaque of Tepoc   
Skink Priest: Level 2, Engine of the Gods   
Skink Priest   : Level 2, Engine of the Gods
Scar Veteren: Cold One, Enchanted Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec, Light Armour
     
11 Skinks
10 Skinks   
10 Skinks   

3 Terradons
3 Terradons
18 Temple Guard: FC, Banner of Huanchi
Stegedon   


Derick's Warriors of Chaos List

555  Daemon Prince Lvl4, Mark of Tzeentch,Tendrills of Tzeentch, Blood Curdling Roar

206 Sorcerer lvl2 Mark of Nurgle, Steed,Glaive of Putrification, Power familiar

196 Sorcerer lvl2 Mark of Nurgle, Steed,Biting Blade, Puppet

221 Sorcerer lvl2 Mark of Nurgle, Steed, Dispell Scroll, Sword Might, soporific musk

30  5x Warhounds
30  5x Warhounds
112 15x Marauders Mark of Slaanesh, Muso + Std, L/Arm + shlds
112 15x Marauders Mark of Slaanesh, Muso + Std, L/Arm + shlds
112 15x Marauders Mark of Slaanesh, Muso + Std, L/Arm + shlds


285 5x Knights Mark of Nurgle, Muso + Std, War Banner
260 5x Knights Mark of Nurgle, Muso + Std

130 Warshrine

2249pts total

Glenn’s Dark Elves List

580 Dreadlord, Black Dragon, Null Talisman (x3), Armour of Eternal Servitude, Sword of Might, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Twin Repeater Handbows

150 Master, Null Talisman (x3), Biting Blade, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Repeater Crossbow

150 Master, Ring of Hotek, Gem of Nightmares, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Repeater Crossbow

151 Assassin, Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane
151 Assassin, Additional Hand Weapon, Rending Stars, Manbane

117 5 Dark Riders, Musician
117 5 Dark Riders, Musician
 75 10 Spearmen, Full Command

384 24 Shades

100 Repeater Bolt Thrower
100 Repeater Bolt Thrower

175 War Hydra
====
2250

Justin’s Bretonnia List

lord, hippogryph, grail vow, shield, virtue confidence, sword of heros, gauntlet of the duel, dragon claw

BSB ,grail vow, holy icon, warhorse,

paladin, shield, warhorse, questing vow, sword of the quest,

damsel, silver mirror, extra level, horse

damsel, 2 dispel scrolls, extra level, horse

5 knight errant, muso
5 knight errant, muso
5 knight errant, muso
5 knight errant
7 knight of the realm, full command, warbanner

5 mounted yeomen, muso
3 pegasus knights

7 grail knights, full command, banner of defence


Levi’s High Elves

Archmage, lvl4, Book of Hoeth        360pts

Mage, lvl2, Folariath’s Robe             180pts

Mage, lvl2, Ring of fury, silver wand       185pts

Mage, lvl2, Seerstaff of sapherry, powerstone          185pts

20 Seaguard, Full command               285pts
10 archerswith light armour         120pts
6 Dragon princes,full commands, Banner of sorcery, Skeinslive       305pts
2 chariots                       170pts
10 Shadow warriors            160pts
3x bolt thrower               300pts

2250pts


Phil’s High Elves

Prince, Star Dragon, Halberd, Armour of caledor, Vambraces o Defence, Talisman of loec
Lvl 2 Mage, Seerstaff ,  Scroll           
Lvl 2 Mage, jewel of dusk, Scroll         

20 Spearmen, FoC, War banner             
14 Spearmen,Musican, Banner             
6 Dragon Princes,Musican, Banner, Banner of Ellyrion         
10 White Lions, Musican, Banner                     
Tiranoc Chariots                       
Tiranoc Chariots                       
Eagle                             
RBT                             
RBT                             
RBT                           

Scott’s Orc and Goblin List

Orc Great Shaman + lvl4 + amulet of protectyness 240

Orc Shaman + lvl2+ nibbla's itty ring 120

Orc Shaman + lvl2 + Horn of Urgok 140

Black Orc Big Boss + Battle Standard Bearer+ Warbanner+ Boar + Heavy Armour 155

5 Trolls 200

5 Trolls 200

2 Spear Chukkaz + 1 Bully 75

2 Spear Chukkaz 70

Goblin Chariot 60

20 Black Orcs + Full Command + shields + Morks Spirit Totem 368

3x 20 Night Goblins + shortbows + 2 fanatics 110 each 330 total

20 Night Goblins + 2 fanatics 110

19 Orc Boyz + additional choppaz + shields + full command 182

Total
2250


Simon’s Daemon of Chaos List

590 Keeper of Sercet, Level 3, Allure of Slaanesh, Siren Song, Torment Blade

260 Herald of Tzeentch, winged, Master of Sorcery, Battle Standard, Great Icon of Despair

289 20 Horrors, Champion + Standard, Banner of Change

132 10 horrors, champion

120 10 horrors

157 5 mounted daemonettes, standard bearer, Siren Standard

175 5 Flesh hounds
175 5 Flesh hounds

175 5 flamers
175 5 flamers

====
2248

[dave grant]

Veto'd (for me) - others would get -2/-3:

Dave
Derick
Glenn
Simon

[Vaul]

Wait... so those four are the veto'd ones?  Or the rest are?

*edit* i'm going with those are the vetoed ones.  Yeah, pretty sure that's right.

[Glenn Patel]

heh. My list is terrible. It's just no fun to play against.

...or maybe that's just me.

(seriously, I keep feeling like I'd have been better off with a *normal* DE army... the Shadestar is just such a monstrously huge liability)

[dave grant]

Sorry, those are the ones I would veto - oh forgot, add Levi's as well (despite what my super-cheesy lizards did to those elves).

The others are 'disappointing' from a 'pure filth' perspective.  , having seen armies in the UK such as:

Twin STank, WLater, 4 cannons.....
8 Bolt thrower, 2 Earthshaker Chaos Dwarfs
Bretonnian RAF (4 Peg characters + 4 Peg units)
Anvil + 8 War Machine dwarfs

Looking forward to getting back to the filth..... 

[Dirty_Vod]

I'm largely in agreement with Dave and would veto.

Dave
Chris - VCs
Derrick
Glenn
Levi
Simon

the rest of them are sitting around -2/-3 for a "normal" tourney but certainly not tuned enough to warrant a veto.

[Derick]

I veto Derrick because that's too many R's 


DeRick

[Antony]

does the "-2/-3" apply to tier comp? Or the usual 0-5 for example?

[dave grant]

-2 / -3 is for Tier, if you got "-3" in a 0-5 scale I guess you would be verto'd 

[Derick]

I think its appropriate that my list is one which would be Vetoed. I achieved what I set out to do.
I tried for a cheesey build and every one is saying "oooh look at the scary list".

I guess in the hands of any other person this list might actually be dangerous. 

[Lezle]

I guess in the hands of any other person this list might actually be dangerous. 

My god! Guard it with your life Derick!

Lezle

[wouster7]

Post hijack...

I tried for a cheesey build and every one is saying "oooh look at the scary list".

I guess in the hands of any other person this list might actually be dangerous.

@Derick

Your army looks scarey as, plus it got the veto nod. Since I'm likely to be the first guy to get smashed by the hidden goliath this Sunday.
I'm gonna treat it like Chernobyl and bring a few bags of cement 

[dave grant]

All Derick needs to turn his fortunes around are a couple of 'uber' gateways. My Slann bunker certainly wouldn't like it.

[Glenn Patel]

Which is to say, all he needs is two loaded dice... (two 6's to cast, two 6's on strength... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!)

[Derick]

Actually its if you roll an 11 or 12 on the strength. so that's not too hard.

[Glenn Patel]

yeah, but if your loaded dice roll 5's AND 6's then you're less likely to get IF.