Tin Soldiers 2 - Entrants

[dave grant]

Wanted to post a list of entrants, so here it is, 31 entered (a few people need to 'finalise' availability, so I expect 30 to be playing):

               Paid   List
Dave Grant   Y   N
Chris Ellis   Y   N
Phil Comins   Y   N
Pete Dunn   Y   N
James Milner   Y   N
Hagen Kerr   Y   N
Nick Irvine   Y   N
Antony Kitson   N   N
Derick Williams   Y   N
John Matthews   Y   N
Kyran Henry   Y   N
Mark Owen   Y   N
Chris Townley   Y   N
Rob Sadler   Y   N
Ryan Simister   Y   N
Josh Warne   Y   N
Tony Vodanovich   N   N
Luke Brimblecombe   Y   N
Glenn Patel   N   N
Russel Simister   Y   N
Phil Wu   N   N
Rion   N   N
Nick Buckby   Y   Y
Simon Kwok   Y   N
Dean Webb   Y   N
Carl Hardner   N   N
Bryan Osborne   N   Y
Michael Vercoe   Y   N
Ray O Conner   N   N
Phil Petry   Y   N
Reid Pittams   N   N


A few other people have told me they will 'probably' be coming. So get off your butt guys and confirm entry. Only 10 days before entries close.

Updated 24/05/09

[Vaul]

I'm definately in, and i'll give you cash as soon as I see you at CG next.  I'm there every week unless there is something major on (such as NATCON).

[Simon]

player pack? date ? cost?

please send me the link?

[dave grant]

PM me your e-mail address and I'll send them all though. In summary.




Tin Soldiers 2

Warhammer Tournament, 13/14 June 2009
Onehunga RSA, Onehunga, Auckland
6 games of warhammer with 2,250 point armies
Cost : $30 until 30 April 2009, $35 thereafter.
Entries close 22 May 2009.


Contact Dave Grant “djgrantuk@yahoo.co.uk” for more details entry forms and a tournament pack.

[wouster7]

Count me in as well Dave.
Will send you a couple of lists too. Your input and suggestions would be very helpfull.

cheers

[Josh]

I'm 90% sure I'll be there. I'll confirm in the next few days.

[Simon]

just wondering why lizardmen on tier 3?

[dave grant]

Why not?? That's where they where before, and the "standard" list isn't much better/different than it was before.


After a few events with the list it may move Tiers based on how things turn out with it. But for now 3 seems reasonable.

[Glenn Patel]

The 'standard' list should now have points spare somewhere, or a quality upgrade. Saurus are cheaper and better (with spears at least), Slann is cheaper and/or better, Saurus characters can take less 'stuff' (and Scar-Vet got +1 T to make up for not being able to spend 15 points on +1 to armour). Oh, I think Saurus Cav. are cheaper? Also better? (not sure)

More to the point, leaving them Tier 3 implies that taking more than one Steg is going to probably raise eyebrows... well, that's fair enough I suppose.

Well, not really. Lizards now have a much harder 'hardest build', which means either the line for 'standard tournament' has [effectively] moved a long way away from 'most broken Lizardbuild possible' [which means drawing the 'resubmit' line really really close], or 'standard list' should be considered harder.

The cost of a nine PD magic offense dropped by like 300 points (previously, you'd need Slann + Priest). Plus a Lizard list with an Engine of the Gods is substantially nastier than one with an Old Stegadon (not least because of +1 Leadership for all Skinks everywhere)...


Sure, if you take an Oldblood led list with only one Stegadon and not running Saurus it's not a lot better (although using an Engine of the Gods as your magic defense is pretty nasty)... but Slann lists? Have free points to play around with. Lists with Saurus? Have free points to play around with.

Effectively saving ~250 points per army list is usually considered worth a tier (those '2000/2250/2500' tournaments indicate that to me anyway).

Oh, and Terradons got back their rocks. It's little changes that do add up.

[Josh]

I've been given executive permission to attend! Dave, can you send me an entry form or whatever and I'll give you some money some time. Now, to find any time to paint more models...

[dave grant]

But Glenn.

PD aside, Slanns are worse.
No charm of jaguar (at least how it was) is a blow to many versions of the list
Salamanders are a lot worse - razordons don't make up for it
Skinks are obviously more points - and cannot skirmish
Krox being str 6, not 7 is a BIG blow. Chariots/knights/large monsters sleep much easier now vs lizards.

Overall changes mean the style of play has been altered.... and its yet to be seen if this is better/worse overall.

As I said, my initial view is "overall" the list is about the same. I may be wrong, but for now they stay tier 3 for this event.

Josh I thought I already sent you an entry form/pack. PM me your e-mail and I'll resend.

[Glenn Patel]

Okay, Charm no longer works in non-magic heavy builds... on the other hand, there's no longer a compelling reason to not take a magic-heavy build, since twin Engines are an 8 PD magic phase even if you don't want a Slann, and scary scary support AND good in combat... and the Slann is much cheaper.

I'm not in the slightest bit convinced the Slann is worse. The 300 point Slann BSB can get +1 PD per spell cast. Yes, he's not as good as a 2nd Gen was - but he's sooooo much less expensive it's not remotely funny.

He's what? A full Stegadon cheaper? (I think he's exactly 230 points cheaper than a 2nd Gen was...).


Krox and Salamanders took a hit, sure. (and Salamanders got an inexplicable name change for some reason...)

And Skinks cost more as skirmishers, sure.

Are you suggesting the 'old' standard lists were nothing but skirmishing skinks, twin Salamander packs, and fill the special slots with terradons and kroxigors? That was the standard?

If we assume the 'standard' is either:
a) takes all the good stuff
or
b) takes a bit of everything

then the slight weakening of some things is more than made up for in the changeover.

Also, I'm not complaining, I'm just so totally going to be taking Lizardmen if they get to stay Tier 3...

[Josh]

Hi Dave, I've got the players pack... I just get confused with these things. How do I tell you, 'SIGN ME UP'? There's no entry form attached to the players pack that I can see... just the normal battle, sports, comp, paint breakdown.

[Philfy]

As I said, my initial view is "overall" the list is about the same. I may be wrong, but for now they stay tier 3 for this event.

He may be asking Dave because I made Lizards Tier #2 for Natcon...  and I think was justified in that. 

As those who played the 2 Steg/Carnosaur list will attest to I think. 

[pete dunn]

Lizards - The Dark Elves of 2009

Floating under a radar near to you

[nik_]

I got spanked by Lizards 4 games in a row over Easter. (Ignore me, I've lost my last 10 games anyway...)

[Philfy]

Dave does play lizards....   

[Ry.S]

Rather have the old slanns, no miscasts and +1 cast/dispel was just awesome. and S7 krox where alot nastier than the newer S6 lads. If you take +dice and any other goodys in the magic phase i'm sure you will feel the comp stick.

[Glenn Patel]

The Old Slann was a huge points sink. He had to win the game single-handedly because he was most of your army.

Sure, he had many neat features. I don't think they earnt the points you were paying for them back very often, though.

And similiarly, Kroxes losing S7 was a slap in the face... but honestly, I've NEVER popped a chariot with them... it really wasn't actually doing that much for them IMO. (I mean really, who runs chariots anyway? How often are they actually something you need to fear? IME not that often.)

[dave grant]

Guys.

Still not sure lizards need to be tier 2, that said:

Sorry but pack has been out for over a month, and a draft (with lizards tier 3) issued before that - this has come quite late, although I admit it could be a result of more 'exposure' to the lizards since then. I don't feel comfortable changing things now unless 'everyone' agrees as players have signed up.

As I said, not guaranteeing its right, but it is what it is. I'll be releasing comp guidelines at end of week, somaybe you'll change your minds when you see what I envision a 'standard' list being - maybe not.


Josh - entry was a seperate form. Next time I'm on e-mail I'll send to you. (I'm in a hotel lobby in LA at the minute).

[Josh]

Brilliant. How's the big smog?

[Glenn Patel]

Fair enough. I'm in for TS2 anyway... I don't think I'm likely to complain about my comp not utterly sucking anyway.

[Dirty_Vod]

Count me in for TS2 Dave...

[Derick]

Paid and list sent

2x Shaggoths
2 x Chaos Chariots,
2 units of knights
Level 4 Tzeentch Sorcerer on a dragon with lots of toys
3 x level 2 Nurgle sorcerers
core is 3 units of Marauder cav

do you think I'll take a comp hit?

[Josh]

Good God, Derick has made a power list! Time to win some games Derick? 

[Derick]

I didn't actually say that's what I was taking

[Antony]

At last Tin Soldier you took my Brets and ruined their Warhammer Fu 
You can't do any worse with

2x Shaggoths
2 x Chaos Chariots,
2 units of knights
Level 4 Tzeentch Sorcerer on a dragon with lots of toys
3 x level 2 Nurgle sorcerers
core is 3 units of Marauder cav

 

[Fujin]

At last Tin Soldier you took my Brets and ruined their Warhammer Fu 

Damn. So that's why they weren't working for me. Thought it might have been poor generalship for a while there. Good to know Derick ruined the army with "the curse".

[dave grant]

Updated entrants list.

NOTE there are a lot of City Gaurd that I 'think' are going but have not yet confirmed - including most of the "cheesycon" players.

Please confirm entry asap to get the $30 price.

[Philfy]

Paid today