Question?

[Simon]

Q4 - yes. Cheese from hell - or at least, deliberate overguessing to hit a unit you cannot see if very bad form and gamesmanship.

happen to me all the time when i was using my dwarf...

Q5 - don't quite get it. One model screening the Altar? Initial response is that the Daemon hits the corner of the Altar and brings in as many of the Spearmen as possible (to maximise models in combat), thus avoiding the Skrimishers.

so it really doesn't matter what I charge? I must maxmise models in contact, so my demon will be in base contact with the alter with a corner and the front in contact with the spearmen?
and the skrimishers won't be in combat at all??

[Glenn Patel]

Question 4

an anvil of doom is placed behind a very big hill, screened by many units at the front.
my question is:

is it cheesy to "target" the unit right in front of the anvil and add a few more inches (obviously miss the targeted unit)  in such a way my stone thrower might land on the anvil?

Question 5

a waralter is placed right next to a unit of spearmen (base contact on the left), and some skrimishers on the right side of the war alter in such a way 1 model screened the waralter.

if i decided to charge the waralter with my greater daemon and obviously i have to be in combat with the spearmen as well, my question is:
will i also be in combat with the skrmishers?

Q4:

Deliberate overguessing is one of the things the Rules as Written spell out as 'unsporting but legal'. In a tournament situation, I guess the answer is 'you can do it, but your opponent should then mark you down on Sportsmanship' [same as for engineering a clipping situation, I guess].

Q5:

It depends somewhat on the relative initial placement of the Greater Daemon. (this is easier to demonstrate with the models in front of me...)

WAR SPEARS
S

        GD

vs

  WAR SPEARS
  S

GD

In the first situation, the GD can pivot and charge in a straight line so as to contact the War Altar and the Skirmishers but AVOID the spears, as he can achieve contact with WAR (with one of the corners of his base) and then the aligning move brings in the skirmishers, but he cannot charge the SPEARS and the WAR as if he is charging the WAR he must contact it first and THEN can bring in other combatants with an aligning move.

In the second, assuming he can achieve corner to corner contact with the WAR but the Skirmishers are awkwardly placed so he cannot do so without hitting the Spearmen with an aligning move, the GD charges the Spearmen and Altar but cannot suck in the Skirmishers.

I cannot visualize any arrangement such that the aligning move would bring both the Skirmishers AND the SPEARS into contact with the GD.

[Simon]

situation 1:
 
WAR SPEARS
S


            GD

so my GD charges straight into the waralter, hit it with a corner, now what happen??
with a skrimisher in between the waralter and greater demon, how do i wheel into the waralter?

1. is it going to be a fail charge?
2. or the war alter and skrmishers adjust themselves so they are in combat with my greater demon but expose my flank to the spearmen unit next turn?

[Antony]

Question 4

an anvil of doom is placed behind a very big hill, screened by many units at the front.
my question is:

is it cheesy to "target" the unit right in front of the anvil and add a few more inches (obviously miss the targeted unit)  in such a way my stone thrower might land on the anvil?

It is OK to target the model with your cannon or stone thrower that gives you the maximum chance of hitting the Anvil.
It is particulary good sports (IMHO) to only target models that give you maximum impact on the unit targeted. If you hit another high value target then good for you.
Overguessing is deinately a no no. If in doubt ask the other guy/onlookers if it is a kosha guess.

[Fujin]

Yes, it is a bit easier work this to your advantage with a cannon


With Q5 - I'm struggling to see how you could bring both the Skirmisher(s) and the War Altar into combat simultaneously . Either the Daemon (btw... is this a flying GD?) charges the Skirmishers and tactically wheels (still can't see the War Altar being dragged into combat by doing that because if he hits the Altar he aligns to it, but if he hits the Skirmishers they align to him/it - you can't do both), or he charges the Altar, pivots to avoid the Skirmishers and in doing so is required to hit the Altar at such  place that his base width brings the Spears into combat.

[Glenn Patel]

Q5, Fujin:

It's not that hard. GD is a square. If the top-right corner contacts the War Altar before the top or top-left corner contacts the Skirmishers, he's charged the War Altar. You then align him, keeping the top-right (TR) corner where it is while moving the top-left (TL) corner. If the TL THEN hits the skirmishers, they count as having been charged. I believe you then align the touched skirmisher model, move the War Altar to align with the GD, and then rank up the skirmishers.

Yes, your flank will be exposed to the Spearmen. From that position, there is no way to charge both the Altar and the Spearmen, as there is no straight-line route that contacts the Altar and then aligns the GD into combat with the Spearmen.

[dave grant]

Q4: Legal yes, potentially dodgy sports to deliberately overguess. That said some people play that way, so you shouldn't think "the worst" of people if they do it.

If it worries you ask at the start of the game if they say they will if they get the chance, play to avoid it (by placing units differently).


Q5 - depends on angles etc, but from descitpion I think you can get alter and spears with no skirmishers or alter and skirmishers with no spears, but not all 3, and not just the alter.

[Simon]

With Q5 - I'm struggling to see how you could bring both the Skirmisher(s) and the War Altar into combat simultaneously . Either the Daemon (btw... is this a flying GD?) charges the Skirmishers and tactically wheels (still can't see the War Altar being dragged into combat by doing that because if he hits the Altar he aligns to it, but if he hits the Skirmishers they align to him/it - you can't do both), or he charges the Altar, pivots to avoid the Skirmishers and in doing so is required to hit the Altar at such  place that his base width brings the Spears into combat.

ok.. pic better than words..

assuming :
Giant = war alter
night goblin = spearmen
skink = skrmisher



GD base contacted the war alter, if it wheels, it will smash into the skrmisher. so how do u arrange the models?

[dave grant]

GD aligns until he hits the skink

Then move skinks and align giant/alter.

GD 'sticks out' and put skinks in BTB (probably just 1)


FYI skirmishers and alter both get charge reactions, also from the charge angle its impossible to charge the alter and the spears. If chargeing from the left you would get the alter and the spears.

[Simon]

okay Q6

what if a unit of Knights of the realm charges the "war alter" head on??

eg


WAR SPEARS
S


 BBB
 BBB
 BBB

will the bretonnia needs to maximise against the spearmen and "clip" the war alter???

or maximise against the war alter so more models fight against the war alter and rest fight the spearmen??

[Glenn Patel]

Assuming they cannot charge the War Altar without clipping the Spearmen, they must clip the War Altar and maximise against the spearmen.

[dave grant]

Maximise models - so "clip" the alter.



Missed Q3.

By the rules you would end up clipping. Some people agree to play sliding, but this is not in the rules.

Suggest you add it to the list of questions to ask before a game.


IF you do not play sliding, doing it on purpose is good gameplay, and no sports hit to my mind. Also note with TK/dwarfs etc its VERY easy to engineer a clip, even if you play sliding.

(try having a gyrocopter / carrion etc 1" away from the unit you wish to charge, leaving a tiny fraction you can charge into - when you charge you "have" to clip as models are in the way to do anything else - unless you slide the charegee - which can cause all kinds of problems).

[Simon]

IF you do not play sliding, doing it on purpose is good gameplay, and no sports hit to my mind. Also note with TK/dwarfs etc its VERY easy to engineer a clip, even if you play sliding.

So u mean if I DO NOT play sliding, engineering a clip charge is good game play and not cheesy?

[Glenn Patel]

That's Dave's opinion. So if playing vs /Dave/ it's good sportsmanship.

It should come as no surprise that standards on good sportsmanship vary.

[dave grant]

See no harm is using the rules to your advantange.

I don't beliieve this is one of the 'loophole' rules were exploitation is dodgey. As Glenn said, some may disagree.