Antonys' Darkies

[Antony]

This is all of the Darkie models I own
Is it worth a game?

Master (hero) on Manticor, heavy armour, shield, SDC, lance - 294 pts
lvl 3 Sorcerer - 225 pts
BSB on dark stead, heavy armour, shield, SDC, lance - 131 pts
Assassin, AHW, RoK, Manbane - 146 pts

10 RXB, shields, muso - 115 pts
6 Harpies - 66 pts
5 dark riders, RXB and musos - 117 pts
5 dark riders, RXB and musos - 117 pts
20 spears, shields, full command - 155 pts

Cold one chariot - 100 pts
Cold one chariot - 100 pts
6 cold one knights, full command - 202 pts
6 shades, AHW - 102 pts

Hydra - 175 pts
RBT - 100 pts
RBT - 100 pts

Grand total 2245 points

So what is the difference between this and any other Dark Elf pile of poo? Well, like I said above it is all of the models I have (except for one or two crossbows) but I have also trimmed all the magic items.

Would it get comp slammed (again)?
 

[nik_]

Generally I would rather face Demons or VC than DE, but this list looks OK.
I like that it has no magic items, and only the single wizard (no dagger!!!!).
The shooting still looks like it would rip my army apart (again!), and the rare choices are hardly a concession, but I prefer it to your dragon led list in terms of comp

[Antony]

doh, this is what happens when you post things after bed time 

I left out the black guard, who I can't take because of special slots. No worries though, list and points amended with spears and stuff.

[Glenn Patel]

It's Dark Elves. With a two terror causers. I don't think it has a /hope/ of good comp... and probably is going to score low even without the terror causers.

That said, it looks fairly friendly /to me/. *shrug*

[Simon]

2 terror causers
2 RBT and a hydra

2 if not a 1.

1 = Hard ass, 5 = soft ass.

[Bignic]

As has been mentioned elsewhere at length - there are few "soft" choices for DE. Corsairs, non-tooled Witch Elves, executioners with no Cauldron... and you dont own any of these.

I like the lack of magic toys.
It still feels as if you would need to avoid 1 RBT and/or 1 terror causer to hopefully get unadjusted comp. But it is at least in the same ballpark as a "normal" army  :-)

N

[Antony]

I didn't expect gasp of "gosh what a squishy DE army" anyway. My poser was mainly about is the army viable without any fancy gear - my feeling is yes and that is echoed by your opinion on this armys comp.

I don't go for things like "concessions" but I see the main vulnerability as being lack of magic defense. I can see that no one really cares about a percieved concession or weakness and when assessing comp focus on the armys strengths. So there is no point in thinking you'll get "extra credit" for leaving stuff out.

There are two disposable aspects of the army either one of the RBT, and/or the assassin.
Things to replace them with are,
scroll - 25
standard of slaughter - 35
focus familier - 25
warbanner - 25 or cold blooded banner - 15
Ring of Darkness for Manticore - 40
GW for shades - 6
extra magic level - 35
another scroll - 25

The thing is all that bling doesn't really add much to the army 

[Simon]

drop the hydra or RBT and for a unit of spearmen.
then it is definitely a "3" army.

I will never give any dark elf army with a 3 which has a hydra and 2 RBTs.

To me, a hydra and 2 RBTs is as hard as 2 units of 6 flamers.

[Philfy]

Jeez guys cry me a river.

Given the lack of the "toys" that tune a DE list I say its pretty standard Ant.  As with Daemons & VC's, certainly not "soft" - but tier takes care of that.

Dropping the manticore would go a LONG way to getting you a soft score (assuming the rest of the army stays the same)  Particularly if you replaced it with extra spear unit or corsairs etc etc

[Glenn Patel]

As has been mentioned elsewhere at length - there are few "soft" choices for DE. Corsairs, non-tooled Witch Elves, executioners with no Cauldron... and you dont own any of these.

I like the lack of magic toys.
It still feels as if you would need to avoid 1 RBT and/or 1 terror causer to hopefully get unadjusted comp. But it is at least in the same ballpark as a "normal" army  :-)

N

Yeah... this attitude is why tiers don't work.

In a tier system, an army should be able to be rated as soft for it's tier while using the troops that are of middling quality /for that book/. Executioners and Corsairs, fielded in any significant quantity, should be a sign of a weak list. Black Guard, Hydra, Cold One Knights is the 'strong' option. Or something.

...er... anyway. Point is, Scale should go:

Dragon List > List with nothing but good troops > List with av. troops (for DE) > List with significant quantities of the the most terrible DE troops (Spearmen with no shields, Corsairs, Executioners.. .) with 'Really strong characters' nudging it up a notch and 'really weak characters' nudging it down a notch.

...and the line for 'relatively soft' should be drawn somewhere that can be achieved by something other than the platonic ideal of a sucky DE list.